Friday, July 20, 2012

83 Rainbow Warriors with Vegan Cupcakes fly to the Moon

83 Rainbow Warriors with Vegan Cupcakes fly to the Moon

Hello and welcome to another fine episode of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals, the premier episodic audio file series released by the Invercargill Vegan Society.  Episode 83, Rainbow Warriors with Vegan Cupcakes fly to the Moon.

This episode, Battery Cage protests, The SPCA loves Non Vegan cupcakes, and the June Invercargill Vegan Society potluck, with special guests Susan and Logan Elias from Auckland, who joined us while traveling the South Island.

Finally, a racist, sexist Invercargill man on a rampage, no, its not me, and the anniversary of Greenpeace anti nuclear protest boat The Rainbow Warrior being violently sunk, Non Nuclear New Zealand, Prime Minister David Lange stands up to the Nuclear superpowers, my uncle Michaels bilingual English and Maori childrens story about a man-eating-bird and Pungawerewere the spider "A Good Use For Cobwebs", donating Vegan Is Love, Thats Why We Don't Eat Animals childrens books to our local library, Invercargill Vegan Society posters up around Invercargill city, how Veganism , non violence and peace work together, like a mother Hen sheltering her chicks, a proud father Rooster watching over them all, US President John Fitzgerald Kennedy has a dream, while Apollo 11 lands on the moon, July 20th, 1969.

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Its that time of the year again, I'm recording this on July 19th, tomorrow will be July 20th, the day where three American human animals flew to earths Moon, possibly our greatest achievement as a species, the furtherest away from this big rock we've ever been.  July 20th, 1969, 43 years ago.

Last year, one year ago, and one day from now, I was in Auckland, New Zealand for the National Animal Rights Conference 2011.  You can hear audio diary recordings I made during my stay there, about Auckland city itself, meeting lots and lots of other Vegans in one small space, back when The Invercargill Vegan Society was just myself, Dan, Natalie and Ricky, when we boast in 2012 numbers consisting of Myself, Dan, Katharine, Russell, Steve, Kerri, and their son Jess, a second Steve and Amber, with perhaps more on the way soon!

You'll find all that and more in Episode 61, Auckland Antics.

Its also that time of the year again, where the New Zealand media decide to focus on the Hens kept in Battery Cages:

Another expose on battery cages, or in this case, the planned welfare shift to "colony cages", which are slightly larger, and with more Hens trapped inside.  This time its slightly different, as at the scene of the protest Deirdre Simms was interviewed, and they aired her mentioning that she's Vegan -

Isn't it great to hear the primetime current affairs show reporter Mark Sainsbury actually mention that SOME people do not eat birds eggs?  The more we promote Veganism, that we let it be know that theres a hell of a GREAT alternative between "factory farming" and "free range", VEGNANISM, the better!

Every mention of Veganism counts, every chance we can, we should promote Animal Rights, Veganism, to get the message out there.  Imagine if even one of the banners on the tripod barricades proudly said "VEGAN", every frame of video, every photo taken by the media feeding frenzy at the protest would have beamed the word VEGAN out there to the world, it would have been visible in newspaper coverage, it would have been everywhere.  I'm really glad that Deirdre told the reporter how she herself is vegan, and that the editors included this in the aired recording.   Having Veganism as the core message, or even simply as one of the many messages on the protesters banners, "free the hens", "end factory farming", "ban cages", "factory farmed animals suffer", "NZ Open Rescue", "AFA" (for Animal Freedom Aotearoa), "no colony cages".  Deirdre was also identified as representing "The Coalition To End Factory Farming", one of the many hats worn by the protestors, ha, usually she's classified as part of "NZ Open Rescue".  The report played before also stated they were protesting about Animal Welfare , rather than calling them Animal Rights too -

Imagine if just one of the many brands and logos and groups shown on signs was the word "Vegan"!

The most well known "ban caged eggs" protester in New Zealand is Carl Scott, the Man in a Cage.  Carl stayed in a self built cage for a month, gaining media attention for the issue of animal welfare here in New Zealand farms.  Carl is Vegan, I interviewed him on Episode 70 of this show, "Ms Hen for President", which is linked in the shownotes for this episode at 

I thanked Carl for mentioning that he was Vegan on live New Zealand television, which has a real impact, live, unedited tv, whatever he said was going out to the nation, to the world through the video available online.  It actually sounds like the presenter Mark Sainsbury knew Carl was Vegan, perhaps Carl had mentioned it before about wanting to talk about Veganism during the interview, as its an otherwise odd question to bring up, "Carl, do you believe people should be eating eggs fullstop?"

 In his interview in Episode 70, I also asked Carl what he thought about having a clear message that they were protesting for Veganism :

I'm glad both Carl and Deirdre got the word Vegan out there, it would be great to see Veganism as the main public goal of all New Zealands animal campaigns.  We've got some plans down here to promote Veganism, from putting posters up around the city for the Invercargill Vegan Society.  

Theres currently a few trial posters up around the city, one on Dee Street, Invercargills main street, A0 paper size "Veganism, its doubleplusgood!".   Esk Street has a poster of Ms Hen, titled "Love Hen Mother", and theres a smaller A3 size doubleplusgood poster on Tay street.  Photo are up at , and in this episodes shownotes. 

Another idea I'm looking into is placing our message on supermarket trolleys, at the New World supermarket, they have little advertising spaces that customers see as they push the trolley around the supermarket, one ad on the inside facing the trolley pusher, and another on the outside, facing everyone else.

You can see details and mockup designs for those on the shows blog,

The SPCA is having a fundraising day.  "The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals", sounds like a good name for an Animal Rights group, right?  The New Zealand SPCA is a welfare group focused almost entirely on cats and dogs, they run most New Zealand nonhuman animal shelters, for cats and dogs, with the occasional rabbit and Hen found outside the fences of a human animals property.

The SPCA has an annual event, "Cupcake Day for the SPCA", where a brightly illustrated young beagle jumps and a young cat pounces, bake cupcakes and sell them in your area, send the profits to the SPCA.  Its a good idea, like the vegan baking fundraisers, but this national event has a page called "Which Eggs?", explaining why we should only use "free range" or "barn eggs" in our Non Vegan baking to help prevent cruelty to animals:

From their webpage, which a Vegan friend will read, audio shows - theatre of the mind :-)

"Most cupcake recipes call for eggs - but do you know which eggs are best to use?

When you bake your delicious cupcakes for Cupcake Day, we ask you to please consider using only free range eggs or barn eggs in your cupcakes. These eggs come from hens that are kept in conditions in which they are able to display all their natural behaviours - they are able to walk around and flap their wings, have deep litter/dust in which to scratch and dust-bathe, private nest boxes in which to lay in peace, and access to safe roosting perches at night.


Free range eggs come from hens that are are free during the day to range outdoors where they have plenty of room to forage, dust-bathe, stretch and flap their wings, and perform their natural behaviours. They have an indoor area in which to shelter, feed and roost at night, and nesting boxes in which to lay their eggs in privacy. They are kept in small flocks.

Barn raised eggs come from hens that are housed in large barns where they are free to roam and express their instinctive behaviour. They are able to perch to avoid danger, dust-bathe to clean their feathers, nest to lay eggs and socialise with other hens. Feed and water stations are placed throughout the shed.


The SPCA runs an accreditation scheme for eggs, pork and chicken, which guarantees that the products you buy have been farmed in a humane manner.

The SPCA Blue Tick is displayed on egg cartons from producers that have farmed their eggs according to the SPCA's high welfare standards - you will never see the Blue Tick on a carton of cage eggs!

Hens on Blue Tick accredited farms are not kept in cages.

To earn the right to display the Blue Tick, food producers must meet the SPCA’s rigorous ethical standards and undergo thorough auditing on a regular basis by qualified and independent inspectors. The SPCA is the only independent body that audits animal welfare on the farm.

Free range eggs and barn eggs are currently accredited under the Blue Tick scheme. To see a list of brands to look out for, please click here.

For more information on the SPCA Blue Tick, click here."

The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals lends its brand to quote "eggs, pork and chicken"?  That looks a little odd, right? In a Vegan world it would!  And it would have been even more difficult to spot the difference between "free range" and "barn raised eggs" when listening to descriptions, when you cant directly compare A to B written in text.   Similarities are "room to move", "dust bathe" which my hen friends happily do in a bucket of dry dirt, its not a glamorous thing as depicted on welfare campaign websites with photo shopped "free range" hens captured in a tenth of a second as having puffed clean fresh dirt into the air around their gorgeous computer edited feathers, next to a lake, mountains in the background.  I have "chicken holes" outside in our garden, Barbara DeGrandes grandson Justin saw the holes I've dug out with the Hens outside  and labelled them "chicken holes".  For terrible weather, where the hens wouldn't have dry dirt outside to clean themselves in, cleaning yourself in dirt, ha, then there are always buckets and trays of dirt inside, and in the glasshouse.  Just saying, don't believe the puffed up language of "….dust bathing Free Range Hens who "perform their natural behaviors expressively".

The main differences are that "Barn Raised Eggs" come from female chickens kept in a large shed, where they wander around between the walls, and "Free Range Eggs" come from female chickens kept mostly in large sheds, where they wander around between the walls and perhaps manage to get through one of the tiny doors to the outside world, more often than not a patch of dirt which is fenced off from true freedom.  "Barn Raised Egg" Hens and "Free Range Egg" Hens both start life the same way, and they end up having their lives ended the same way, with a knife.

I sent a polite email to the SPCA suggesting they could highlight baking that didn't involve Other Animals, that Vegan cupcake recipes could be shown to would be bakers:

Hello RSPCA :-)

Congratulations on last years Cupcake Day for the SPCA :-)

We noticed on your website that you promote using birds eggs to bake cupcakes to raise money to help other animals

Vegan cupcakes (without any animal body parts or secretions) work just as well or better, and involve no harm to anyone :-)  They're also a lot nicer when you think about where birds eggs come from, a females body!  I look after Rescued Hens from a local farm, who were about to be killed because as females grow older, they produce eggs less frequently before stopping.  This happens at all "Egg Farms", along with all their brothers being killed as soon as they are detected male, for not producing eggs.  "Free Range" and "Barn Raised" "cage free" like the SPCA is promoting are no different to other systems.

I can tell you, these Rescued Hens were miserable, they'd been through hell worse than almost any cat or dog would go through in New Zealand, and its "legal" since they're seen as "livestock" as human animals property.

Luckily, my Hen Friends are healing, although I couldnt save their brothers, who are seen as "worthless" for not having a female cycle to exploit.  Many of their feathers have grown back, and they are near a healthy weight.  They'll live here safely for the rest of their natural lives without being harmed by an "egg farm" ever again.

We'd love to see the SPCA mention baking cupcakes without using animal products, they work out cheaper, they do not "go off" as quickly as when animal secretions are put inside and they're cruelty free.  A year or two back, these Vegan cupcakes won American show "Cupcake Wars", they look great!

My friend Kerri bakes cupcakes often for our Invercargill Vegan Society monthly potlucks, I've encouraged her to raise money for your campaign with her vegancupcakes :-)

Lemon and Blueberry, with icing and sprinkles, ha! :-)

I'm more a muffin man, but perhaps I'll help out with iced cupcakes too! :-)

Best wishes for this years fundraising,

Jordan Wyatt,
Invercargill Vegan Society"

I received a response from the SPCA, 

"Hi Jordan

Thank you for your email, and for your support of Cupcake Day.

I really appreciate your suggestion. We were already looking at compiling a list of recipes on the Cupcake Day website, and including a couple of vegan cupcake recipes with these.  The website is still being developed; at the moment we have limited functionality, but it should all be completed by the end of the month. Once this is ready we will have the recipes section up and running.

We understand that not everyone eats eggs or agrees with their production, but we also understand that the majority of people out there will continue to eat eggs. Because of this, the SPCA has always encouraged the consumption of cage-free eggs which come from hens living in humane conditions.

Thanks again Jordan, and warm regards,

Selina Tang

Fundraising & Marketing Coordinator"

I'm glad I got a reply, although its disheartening to see "The Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals" mentioning "we understand that not everyone eats eggs or agrees with their production, but we also understand that the majority of people out there will continue to eat eggs.  Because of this, the SPCA has always encouraged the consumption of cage-free eggs which come from hens living in humane conditions."   The conditions are neither nice, Hens in a big shed where they cant possibly get outside for quote "barn raised", or for the elusive "free range" dream, a big shed where they MIGHT be able to get outside, where they are killed when they're seen as "used up", where their brother Roosters were killed at a day old for not laying eggs as females do, and where they are always seen as property.

I'll check back in the near future to see if the SPCA include Vegan recipes, without using any part of another animal, it would be lovely to see the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals promote Veganism, maybe one day in the future, you never know, where the population is increasingly Vegan, when welfare reforms or "humanely killed SPCA approved" Pigs and Chickens and her eggs will be seen as rather odd!

The "Cupcake Day for the SPCA" story is also covered on my blog, , as well as on the Facebook group, a good way to see all the blog and episode updates.  Just search for Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals on Facebook, and click "Like"! :-)

To mix things up a little, I'll include our report from our latest Invercargill Vegan Society potluck here, in the middle of the show.

My friend Susan came down from Auckland to see the sights of the South Island of New Zealand, Susan and her son Logan, both vegan joined us for our potluck!  You'll hear at our podcast how Kerri made her vegan, birds egg free cupcakes, and how great the sprinkles on top are - I sent a few photos of them to the SPCA in hopes they'll promote Vegan recipes for cupcakes :

It was lovely having Susan and Logan stay, it was nice to see you again Susan, and to hear you laugh at how I pronounce "Curious Hen", the way I say "Curious" as in inquisitive, interested, intrigued and other similar terms for "curious" starting with the letter 'i', to Susans ears it sounded like I was saying "kerosene" Hen, as though she were a flammable liquid!  No, she's curious, Curious Hen!

Lastly, a local Invercargill businessman made waves in national New Zealand news recently, for being a racist bigot.  I thought I should include this to show that Invercargill, the city where I live is not all Chicken Friends and Vegan Potlucks.    About the clip, it starts off with Campbell Live host John Campbell saying "Kia Ora", meaning basically "hi" in native Maori, many New Zealand media shows include token Maori phrases.

So, Louis Crimp is a hugely wealthy man, who owns land and businesses across the city, who has in recent years thrown his millions around, giving money towards the rebuilding of sports venue Stadium Southland for example.  Crimp gave over two million dollars towards construction, on the condition that the local Invercargill Licensing Trust, who tax sales of alcohol and gambling and use most of the money scraped off the top towards donations to local groups and construction of public assets, that the ILT couldn't put their name on part of the stadium.  Louis Crimp fights with the ILT all the time here, as some of his entertainment businesses are affected by them, his nightclubs for example. 

He's also given over a hundred thousand dollars to the tiny fairly right wing party ACT.  In our last election, in 2011, ACT gathered a low even for them 1 percent of the vote, seventh place, compared to our third largest political party, your friends and mine the Greens, with a record 11 percent of the countries vote.  Louis Crimp has said about how the ACT party all hate native New Zealand Maori and how he wants less funding to go into preserving the Maori language, with opinions like that, if its true thats how the ACT party feel about New Zealand culture, the native language of New Zealand, then I hope they shrink even further!  We have MMP, Mixed Member Proportional voting, where parties form coalitions to be the government, its not X vs Y, we have the main left wing party Labour and the main right wing party National, the Green Party who fit further left wing, and ACT who fit further right wing.  Theres also New Zealand First, the Maori, Mana (meaning "power", "spirit", "authority" in the Maori language) and United Future parties, who all often have more populist, reactionary policies, going where they think they'll get votes more than any set party policy, although the recent Maori and Mana parties have a strong focus on empowering Maori culture.  The small parties have an influence on the larger, as our governments will most likely be either left leaning Labour or right leaning National, with support from the smaller parties deciding who will get 51% of the vote through a working coalition.  The Greens have decimated Labour support in recent years however, Labour who once always had 40 something percent dipped down to just 27 percent, while the Greens shot up to 11 percent, who knows, maybe in my lifetime we could have a Green party led government!

Another continued donation of Louis Crimps goes toward the local Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals shelter, where Louis Crimp has donated over one and a half million dollars over time, for new buildings and other expenses.  On The Southland Times story about his latest SPCA donation, a commenter wrote

"On behalf of all the animals, God Bless you for your very generous donation xox"

Oddly, when all these bizarre news reports about local million Louis Crimp went out across New Zealand, the local media was oddly quiet.  In time they covered it briefly, once everyone was talking about Crimp and his ways, but I would have thought they'd be more uproar when a local eccentric millionaire wrote off the native people of New Zealand!  

About Maori culture, theres a really cool creation myth, involving a god man and a god woman……embracing……..holding one another…..for eternity, while their all male children pile up between their legs, and the children dream of seeing the rest of the world, which presumably exists out there in the inky blackness beyond god man and god woman, and so the children manage to somehow throw their father god up and off into the sky, where he lives as Rangi the god of all the sky, and their mother god Papatuanuku exists as the literal land itself, Ranginui, literally "sky father" and Papatuanuku, meaning "earth mother", with their children gods able to live and walk in between the earth and the sky, the parents miss one another for all eternity, crying about how they want to……embrace……once more, together forever and ever and ever.  Damn those meddling kids!

  And its true that native Maori culture highlights several wardances, most notably the Haka, performed by our national rugby team the All Blacks before each game.  The name "All Blacks" has nothing to do with the colour black, it apparently came from a commenter that the New Zealand team played as though all the players were backs, sort of like "offense" and "defense" in other sports, there are forward positions and "backs" positions in Rugby.

But all of New Zealand has a vicious, hand to hand fighting culture - check out this excerpt from The Second World War, Winston Churchills autobiography about, well, The Second World War back in the 1940's, New Zealand soldiers and our quote "hand to hand fighting" :

Heres a couple fictitious Maori New Zealanders, first from one of my favourite science fiction stories, Enders Game, soon to be released as a movie all these years after it was written in 1985, where the most well known war hero is, well, I've already given it away….notice how the deep voice narrator mispronounces Maori as "may-ory", you'd THINK they'd ask how names of countries, native ethnicities were pronounced before recording an audio file, right?

and if you're ever so unlucky as to find yourself watching the Star Wars prequels, Episode II, Attack of the Clones shows the origins of all the clone army, the forefathers of the white plastic suit Storm Troopers in the original/chronologically latter movies, Maori actor Temuera Morrison.  Underneath the colored clone army uniforms who massacre and kill almost every Jedi knight in existence, and then the unexplainably inept at shooting Jedi, crash into trees on the forest planet Endor while chasing Ewoks, the White uniformed Storm Troopers - they're all Maori!

But as heard earlier from the Winston Churchill impersonator, ALL New Zealanders are apparently good at hand to hand combat, those tanks and aircraft carriers and minefields didn't stand a chance!  And in the near future, race wont be such a division, this from the Bill Maher show "Realtime", episode 243, another mispronunciation of Maori:

For the Invercargill Vegan Society, I'm going to see if we can donate copies of the Ruby Roth books Thats Why We Don't Eat Animals and Vegan Is Love to our local library.  They have an illustration or two depicting crying animals used in a circus, and animal flesh in a refrigerator with three flies amongst the chilled bodies which might be a little controversial for our library, I'm not sure.  "childrens books?  This is Animal Rights propaganda!"  Theres a "Vegetarian" section in the adults side of our local library

  • , I'd be happy if these books aimed at children were kept there, they would still be seen if searched for on the computer system, they'd just be in the Adults side, where parents could check them out for their children.  I'd love to see a "Vegan" section too, maybe if we suggest enough Vegan books, and explain theres a large difference between being a "vegetarian" and a "vegan"!

    I hope they'll accept them, we do have more violent childrens stories out there than simply two colorful childrens books which have painted drawings of scenes you'd see at any supermarket non vegan section!  Heck, my uncle Michael on my mothers side sometimes wrote childrens stories, which were published in school journals.   My uncle who spent time in prison for various offenses over the years, who lost one testicle due to cancer decades ago, and my grandmother on their side was a nudist….I have an unusual family, ha!  Heres part of "A Good Use for Cobwebs", a story about Maori legend, a warrior who sought out to avenge all his people killed by a giant bird who used their human bones to make a skeleton fence, Rata the young warrior, named perhaps after the strong, tall tree, his giant spider friend Pungawerewere helps out in the assassination.  If THIS story from Uncle Michael can be published for children to read in class, surely Nephew Jordan can donate a book with crying animals in the circus? 

    Its a little like the well known book and movie A Clockwork Orange, if you don't understand all the words introduced in a language you're unfamiliar with, you'll still pick up the context.

    I'll add a link in this episodes shownotes so you can hear the full audiobook version, as well as see photos from the published school journal version with illustrations.  School Journal Part 2, Number 2 from 1993, it was pretty cool reading this in school back when I was six or so and knowing that my uncle had written it!

    I'll let you know if the library will accept our donated books about Veganism for children, Thats Why We Don't Eat Animals and Vegan is Love by Ruby Roth.  I've got a blog post up on about the local Invercargill library, how odd the "Skinny ooh, naughty word, B I T C H in the Kitch" diet book was to see, where every page shows depictions of impossibly thin, long women with their eyes lighting up at the sight of chocolate cake.  The book talks about women as being self identifying B I T C H's, and that they also liked to quote "pig out" and be like supposed "cows"!  Not exactly a work of antispeciesism, highlighting animal rights, but more of a fad "plant based diet" book for women who'd like to lose weight! , you can always find links mentioned in episodes by searching on the blog site itself, or Google, ie search for " coexisting episode 79 Martys Flying Vegan Adventures " etc, you'll see a link to that episodes shownotes and all the links at the bottom of that blogpost.  I'm also working on a new way of showing episode archives, so more of the hundreds of blogposts I've made there can be more easily found.

    My uncle Michael died of cancer a few years ago, in his mid 40's.  At the end, his body was absolutely shutting down, he couldn't eat, and he had his stomach outside his body for when he could, the way the tubing worked, he carried a bag over his shoulder with a plastic IV sort of bag which was his stomach, tubes going in and out of his torso.  He was bones with skin pulled taunt, nothing more.  He may have been a pretty rough person for some, perhaps much of his life, but I'll remember my uncle Michael for his stories and creativity.  As we went to drive away, knowing that it would be the last time I'd ever see him, that he was going to die in a week or two, I asked him one more question, if he believed in a religion, if he had a personal motto or understanding of life he could share.  He sort of held my shoulder and told me "basically Buddhism".  I hugged him, and got back in our car, as we drove off waving.  Buddhism, changing your ways, new beginnings, peace.  I may be an Atheist, as strongly into Atheism as I am into Animal Rights, but that doesn't stop someone from understanding the appeal of "reincarnation" in a less literal sense, that we can change as people.

    New Zealanders are apparently exquisite at hand to hand fighting, and fictitious Maori New Zealanders in particular are Jedi exterminators/bugger genocide leaders's second to none, but that doesn't mean thats New Zealands *actual* destiny.  We also have things to be rather proud of, statements and positions of peace.

    July 10th marks the anniversary of the Rainbow Warrior being sunk.   July 10th, 1985, a couple years and months before I were born.  The Rainbow Warrior was a Greenpeace ship sunk by French special agents because Greenpeace were protesting French nuclear weapons testing in the Pacific.  The boats would go out there and block where the missile tests would be, or just generally be a bit of a nuisance by getting in the way.  While moored in Nuclear Free New Zealand, where we have no nuclear weapons or nuclear power, and stand behind our Nuclear free position, the boat was sunk using placed mines while docked in Auckland harbor.  I'll let an Australian news report from 2010, the 25th anniversary of the sinking explain a little more, although just to be clear - we don't hold anything against the French people today, the news report hypes that up for some reason, we hold all our deep hate for the Australians when they beat us at sport:

    After that treachery, New Zealand became as firmly opposed to Nuclear Weapons and energy as could be.  It became a real bone of contention with the American government, we refused to let any nuclear powered ships or those carrying nuclear weapons visit New Zealand waters.  Just what exactly we were to do if a superpower wanted to flaunt some gigantic aircraft carrier or colossal submarine by parking it in the middle of Auckland Harbour, I'm not sure, but that was our position - that we wouldn't allow any Nuclear ships to visit the country, and that was that.

    What did sinking a peaceful protest boat accomplish?  What did violence against the property of someone who disagrees with you accomplish?

    The actual escape story of the French agents is something incredible too, like a James Bond chase scene, of how they came here and infiltrated Greenpeace, working out where to place the mines inside the boat, and how they had fake identities, they scuttled, destroyed their own yacht and were picked up by a French submarine….bizarre!  Theres more information about the Rainbow Warrior in shownotes

    In the same year, 1985, New Zealand Prime Minister David Lange joined the Oxford Union debate about Nuclear Weapons.  The leader of a pacific island nation of three million or so at the time, who flew to England and addressed Margret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.  


    <0 intro>

    "hey ronnie, hey ronnie!  I'm on tv, ha, hi ronnie! hiiiiiii! "

    SDI, satellite weapons system in space designed to shoot down nuclear warheads as they fly through the air.  Hard to believe all this was really going ahead, as someone born in 1987, who doesn't really remember it at the time of course.  "Well son, lets look on our iPads at Wikipedia, ah yes, so there were two huge superpowers, the Soviet Union and The United States of America, and they both pointed their bombs at each other, and threatened that if the other guys and girls shot theirs first, then they'd shoot theirs second, and they'd make sure the whole entire world exploded, wiping out all sentient life known in the universe, a ka-trillion years of evolution, all because one believed in communism, and the other capitalism - sounds reasonable, yeah?  And secretly the US team wanted to put huge freaking laser beams in space, and these things would be able to shoot down any nuclear weapons the Soviet team might send up, making themselves bulletproof against missiles, pretty sneaky, yeah?"

    And to think, now my generation all use our iPhones to listen into the US military built Global Positioning Satellites, GPS, so we know where we are, and where we are going using Google Maps.  We even use these military satellites to go geocaching, to go treasurehunting to find little plastic lunchbox containers hidden in local parks etc.  What a world we used to live in, what a world we live in, eh?

    <1 US guy, shorten>

    I like this snooty sounding English guy


    <3 ending>

    I'll include the full half hour address at the Oxford Union by Prime Minister Lange in shownotes.

    It meant New Zealand got kicked out of some treaties with Australia and America, and that we were even told off by the US for somehow letting down the free world, that we weren't pulling our weight when it came to warfare - even today the issue of our naughty Non Nuclear national stance pops up from time to time.  

    The New Zealand Herald reported on a recent military conference event in Hawaii, where New Zealand military boats are not allowed to be parked in the watery parking lot next to the other nations war ships, we're being left out, given the cold shoulder of tofu, to be shamed for being Anti Nuclear!


    "That was a week after he was at the Pentagon to sign a new closer defence agreement with US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta, known as the Washington Declaration.
    During Rimpac the New Zealand Navy will instead be relegated to a civilian dock in Honolulu.
    The US ban on exercising with New Zealand was lifted in 2010, allowing it back in the Rimpac club, but clearly not as fully paid up member. The other 40 ships taking part in the Rimpac exercise are able to berth in Pearl Harbour, including the first Russian destroyer to take part in the exercise.
    It is the first time in 28 years New Zealand has been invited to take part in the biennial exercise which this time is the biggest yet, involving 22 nations, 42 ships, six submarines, more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 personnel.

    New Zealand is contributing 350 personnel and has sent the the Anzac-class frigate HMNZS Te Kaha as well as the HMNZS Endeavour fuelling ship, an autonomous underwater vehicle, an operational diving team, a mine counter-measures team, a rifle platoon from 1 Infantry Regiment, an air force P-3K Orion and staff from Defence HQ.
    Dr Coleman said he was not sure whether Defence Force knew about the ban and he would speak to them about it. He said he found out about it when someone drew his attention to an article in the local Honolulu Star-Advertiser newspaper. But he played down its significance.
    "I don't think it's any big deal. The fact is we are in Rimpac for the first time in 28 years. We signed that Washington Declaration last week which was a high-level document so I wouldn't expect to be briefed on all the operational details on Rimpac."
    "We continue to partner within existing limitations, which include not allowing New Zealand Navy ships to visit US military ports."
    Prime Minister John Key said the arrangement did not come as a surprise and was not a snub.
    "It's nothing new - it's been the position since the legislation was passed in 1987, so we've been in that position ever since then," he told TV3's Firstline programme.
    Mr Key said it had no impact on the Navy's participation in the exercise.
    Diplomatic relations between the US and New Zealand have thawed substantially in the past five years. The thaw has been driven by the State Department, with more resistance over the years from the Pentagon and especially the US Navy to concessions to New Zealand.
    New Zealand was suspended by the Anzus defence alliance after it passed anti-nuclear legislation in 1987 banning nuclear armed or propelled vessels from its ports. The law has not impeded ship visits to New Zealand from other nuclear countries including Britain, France and China. Questions are never asked and it is presumed that vessels they send comply with the law.
    But the US continues to view the law as a challenge to its policy of neither confirming nor denying the nuclear capability of its vessels.
    The US Navy refuses to visit New Zealand ports while the anti-nuclear law remains, and it has clearly reciprocated by banning New Zealand from its military ports."

    Sounds a bit immature, and small minded, right?  "You wont let our big nuclear war machines into your country, so you cant park your little toy war machines beside ours for this military conference, you have to park with the fish killing boats and tourist boats, ha!"

    Speaking of immature, or just plain strange, heres a second part to the Louis Crimp interview, where he, uh, tries to flirt with the reporter, I think!  He heard that infectious pop song "Call Me Maybe"

    <3 news report crimp 2>

    He says he's going to arm himself with a gun after getting a permit from the police, in a country where even our police force do not carry guns!

    Good heavens!

    Well, I cant finish this episode leaving you with the idea that THATS how Invercargill gentlemen ask women out, can I?

    You know, many Maori words start with K, like the tree we planted for World Vegan Day 2011, a Kauri, or the many native New Zealand birds, Kereru the wood pigeon, Kaka, Kiwi, Kokako, Kakapo……and although its not actually Maori at all, the ancient art of wooing, Karaoke never goes out of style, even when sung flatly!

    Hey!  Seriously though, where'd everybody go!  Oh man, I KNEW I had to include my singing at the very end of the show, guess I was right!

    As Vegans, we want to "ripen people up" as Dr Roger Yates would quote Donald Watson, coiner of the term "Vegan", we want to get Animal Rights out there in the public eye.  We're not for hiding under rocks, we want sunlight to be the best disinfectant, honesty the best policy, sunlight as the best tanner of skin, not from a bottle of fake tan creepy chemicals, like when non vegan-ally preserving someones skin with formaldehyde and goodness knows what to wear them as a belt or jacket or shoes, or when we tan ourselves and turn ourselves Oompa Loompa orange, but from the loving embrace of that nuclear reaction in the sky, the sun.  Lets do all we can to promote Veganism, be it the word VEGAN proudly shown to television cameras, a VEGAN recipe on the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animal's cupcake day for the SPCA fundraising page, or a couple VEGAN childrens books in the Invercargill public library, bottom of the world, where they'll be checked out once or twice a year, before being sold off at a dollar each to clear shelf space for newer, more popular and more conventional books.

    We can make a stand for what we believe in, and who knows, even if we're in the minority, sometimes the nation of 3 million can stand up to the Western superpower and say no, we don't want to be a part of that.  As Vegans, we can stand up and say we don't want to help hurt and kill tens of billions of Other Animals each year.  

    As the ultra violent New Zealand movie Once Were Warriors states in a scene, what if we could use our minds, our thoughts, our words to do our fighting?  You know, by swearing at strangers, and posting angry messages in all caps on YouTube video comment sections, yeah!

    Orrrrrr, we could could stand up for what we believe in WITHOUT violence, and being nasty to one another.  It'll be difficult for me, but I'm going to give it a shot!  Next time someone asks me about why I'm Vegan, I wont consider it even for a moment to myself "here we go, another one of those stupid questions".  I'll take it as genuine.  I know that just a few years ago I wasn't Vegan myself, I wasn't Vegetarian.  I thought the only Vegetarians I knew in my distant family were quite odd - and to be honest, they ARE odd, because they wouldn't be allowed in my family if they weren't weirdos - but I felt defensive about the fact they were Vegetarians, that they always seemed to do things differently than the rest of us, ordering fast-food when they were down was difficult, they could never seem to make their minds up on what they were having, samosas or fritters or falafels - when the rest of us were having a dollars worth of chips and a hot dog thanks!

    They never had to outright say or do anything to me, Non Vegan Jordan, and yet I felt a little defensive.  I can understand the line of thought that leads to Vegans being told "you think you're better than everyone else" etc.

    What if we could have countries without militaries at all?  Without a department of war, but as US hopeful presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich, another Vegan likes to ponder, a department of peace, imagine that!

    Standing up for what we believe in, we'd let our minds be our weapons,  our taiaha, our traditional spear, where instead of actual weapons, we'd have communication as our way to reach out into the world, not shedding blood, but spreading ideas.

    Thank you for listening to Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals.

    You can find the script for this episode, as well as downloads for every episode of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals at  And please, "like" Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals on Facebook, I'm that insecure that I need people to "like" my show, if you search for "Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals" on Facebook, it will pop up, or you can find a link on the blog,

    If you want to contact me, I'd really love to hear from YOU, please send me an email to

    I'm also on Facebook and Twitter, Jordan Wyatt, W Y A T T

    Thank you for listening.


    A Good Use for Cobwebs audiobook, a story my uncle Michael Young wrote, which is published in New Zealand School journals for children to read, about a violent, cannibal bird, and a warrior with his Spider friend.  Blogpost about my uncle includes a photo of him in a Greenpeace shirt :-)

    July 20th, 1969, human beings land on earth's moon.  This episode was recorded July 19th 2012, New Zealand time.

    JFK "We Choose To Go To The Moon"

    Cage Eggs protest 3 News

    TVNZ cage eggs protest with Vegan mention

    Carl Scott "Man in a Cage" interview, Episode 70 "Ms Hen for President 2012" Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals

    "Cupcake Day for the SPCA", fundraising for dogs and cats by baking non vegan cupcakes, the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals asks that "Barn Laid" or "Free Range" Hens eggs are taken and used  - so we've been suggesting politely that Vegan cupcakes taste great! :-)

    The Simpsons Do The Bartman video "you cant prove anything!" used with Katharines bit in the June Potluck clip

    Louis Crimp

    Campbell Live, racist remarks

    Donations to SPCA animal shelter

    Stadium Southland 2 million donation

    New Zealand 2011 election results, Green Party 11%, ACT party 1%

    "Redneck Views May Not Be Too Far From Centre"

    Maori creation myth

    Scooby Doo cartoon

    Secret Diary of Louis Crimp

    famous fictional Maori:

    Enders Game also from 1985

    Mazer Rackham

    Jango Fett : Star Wars Episode 2 Attack of the Clones  played by Temuera Morrison

    All the white plastic suited "Storm Troopers" in the Star Wars movies?  They're all ethnically Maori!

    Macho Man song , The Village People

    Sinking of the Rainbow Warrior 10th of July 1985 anniversary

    Oxford Debate

    Rainbow Warrior Oxford Debate, New Zealand Prime Minister David Lange

    Greenpeace remembering the Rainbow Warrior

    Nuclear Ships, New Zealand banned from US ports because we do not allow Nuclear ships like those of the American Millitary in *our* harbors!

    Sir Edmund Hillary, along with his friend Sherpa Tenzing Norgay, the first men to climb the highest mountain on Earth, Everest.

    US President John F Kennedy

    JFK Thats Why We Choose To Go To The Moon famous speech

    A Good Use for Cobwebs audiobook, a story my uncle Michael Young wrote, which is published in New Zealand School journals for children to read, about a violent, cannibal bird, and a warrior with his Spider friend

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