Thursday, May 5, 2011

Episode 53 Animal Rights and Rights

Episode 53 Animal Rights and Rights

Mr Rooster, Animal Rights and Wrongs radio show, Promoting Welfare Reforms or Animal Rights, Great Music from the 1970's and 1980's!  Don't buy a Lambo from Tim Gier!

Listen now by downloading directly from here or, better yet, subscribe in iTunes to get each episode automagically!

Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals iTunes link

Animal Rights and Wrongs show, download episodes here

Hi everyone, welcome to Episode 53 of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals, Animal Rights and Rights, promoting Veganism, or Animal Rights and not Rights, promoting Welfare Reform.

First an email from Glorianna:

Hello from Costa Rica!  My name is Glorianna Rodriguez, I am now a strict vegan.
I had been a life long vegetarian and became vegan recently. The simple beauty of honoring life by completely abstaining from animal products seemed to be a deeper manifestation of the values I grew up with.
I “discovered” your podcast recently.I genuinely enjoy it- the combination of analysis and sarcastic humor with the profound message of veganism is definitely my cup of tea.

Thank-you very much indeed!
Please continue :)



Thank you Glorianna, its nice to hear from people who listen :-)  If you'd like to send me an email, my email address is, I'd love to hear from you, its nice to make new Vegan friends from around the world.

I have lots of good news, and one piece of very bad news.  I'll start with the bad news.

I love Grand Theft Auto Vice City, I truly believe it and San Andreas should be remade in High Definition, two of the greatest video games ever.  1980's Florida, the mid 1990's California, and Nevada, so they could squeeze in Las Vegans or whatever that little town is called.  One of the best things about the Grand Theft Auto games is the radio stations, you can listen to the radio in any car, while you drive over prostitutes or away from pursuing police officers.  Or, you can always obey the speed limit, if you wanted to be boring.  EXCEPT for that spot in San Andreas, by the mine in Los Venturas, that highway, boy, those cars, and scooters, and dump trucks… every vehicle around there seems to do 200 kilometers an hour, its nuts, my Ford GT40 or Honda NSX can barely keep up! 

Regardless of how fast and unlawful you drive, the radio always plays back the same, with irritatingly loud, aggressive rock stations, whiny, pathetic country music stations, and the porridge is just right stations of hiphop, pop and fake talkback.

In Vice City, cruising Miami in your Lamborghini Countach, bought from a shady character, one Mr Gier, who was wearing a vivid Hawaiian shirt and a thick gold medallion, across his open chest of dark curly hair…. pulling up to the mansion from Scarface, you can listen to this song:

On the 24th of April, 2011 New Zealand time, Mr Rooster died.  He was one of the best friends anyone could ever have asked for, he was soft, gentle and a fantastic family member to my Chicken Friends.  He had an infection, and slowly become paralyzed over the course of a hour, he died in my arms, after I'd been keeping him warm, giving him food and water, using a needleless syringe to put drops of water into his beak and keeping him company.

I've had other Chickens die this way before, I managed to save one Hen, by keeping her safe and warm, making sure she was ok, she recovered.  Now two have died from this condition, I have three Hen Friends still alive, no Rooster.  I have the two "yellow Hens", the one with black spots on her tail feathers, and the seemingly much larger "all yellow Hen", and Black Chick.  I hope they will be ok without a Rooster finding food for them, gee, does that sound sexist?  Well in the case of Chickens, Roosters really do behave overbearingly "man of the house-sit", they watch over the Hens as they eat, often after finding the food and calling them to it.  Mr Rooster was even so nice as to find food, to hold still, and let them take it from his beak. 

I'd done everything I could for him, the general advice I've been given is that they are as good as dead when they are in that state, that you can try separating them from the other Chickens, keep them warm, clean and dry, make sure they are eating and drinking, but that they will probably die. 

I was very upset, I made a few videos with him as we sat in the sun together, a small towel on my lap, with him bundled up after been given a wash, around his tailfeathers was very…. dirty… part of the sickness, warm water cleaned them right up.  I patted him with one hand, while talking gently to him.  I was taking the videos partly because I take videos of them all quite often, and to show other people his condition, how I was dealing with it.  I do have a video of him as he died, he was quiet, had a couple of fits, made a squeak, and died in my arms, eyes open.  I knew he had died almost instantly, I guess his whole body changed, maybe he went limp all over, I don't know, but I could just TELL that was the end of Mr Rooster.  I waited a while, stroking him and telling him I loved him, before closing his eyes with my fingers.  I left him in the sun, lying on the towel for a little longer, before burying him under a Silver Berch tree, next to Ms Hen. I'd kept several of her long black feathers, from when she was alive, I wouldn't pluck any of their feathers out ever, even if they were dead, and they were not going anywhere… just a mark of respect, nobody "plucks" my Chicken Friends, their bodies are theirs, not mine, I don't inherit their body feathers when they die.  I took one of my few feathers from Ms Hen, and put it gently into Mr Roosters wing exposed wing, sort of lame I know, but it was a sign that they were together again, probably more for me than them.  I don't believe in the supernatural, I know quite well where they are, I've buried them both myself, under a favourite childhood tree, I know they loved me very much, they both ate from my hand, and followed me, and I loved them.  They are gone, they are not coming back and I accept that.  I wont pretend, and tell myself otherwise.  They live on, in our memories, in the photos and videos I have of them, that many people from around the world have seen, I hope that these recording can help other human beings see that Chickens are just like us in all the ways that matter, that they are not a someTHING, but a someONE, that they have obvious emotions, that they love, and are worthy of being loved in return.

When Ms Hen died, I took one of the feathers she'd dropped while alive and put it in a gap of the Chickens shed, so, in my silly, sentimental way, they could always see it while they nested at night.  I don't know if Chickens remember their dead, I know they care for each other in life,  they could easily see that Black feather on the white wall, if they realized it was from Ms Hen,  great, if not, well, I knew it was hers.  I added one of Mr Roosters, one he'd dropped while alive, crossing each other, if they remember their parents, thats marvelous, if they don't, the worst case scenario, I do, and I can see those feathers each day while spending time with the living Chicken Friends.

I didn't cry while Ms Hen, or Mr Rooster died, its always been my way to keep it inside, along with rhyming, its also the right thing to do, right?  To bottle your emotions up, deep down inside, in that tiny black hole, where they can never ever ever get out?  Good, I thought so.  I loved them while they were alive, I did all I could to be a good friend, to keep them safe, and to help them while they were sick.  When I found Ms Hen dead, I couldn't help her, when a yellow Hen, and later Mr Rooster died on my lap/in my arms, there wasn't anything I could do. 

I miss them all very much, and think of them often. 

Thank you for hearing me out.  I thought about it while I held Mr Roosters body, we kill over 56 BILLION land animals each year, over 49 Billion of those are Chickens, who are no less special than my Ms Hen, or Mr Rooster, no less than my Chicken Friends.  How could I tell others how I felt, when the majority of my human friends are Non Vegan, that they think nothing of paying a couple dollars for a healthy Chicken to be killed, and for what?  Because they've grown up doing so?  For a few minutes of chewing on their body, and throwing their bones in the trash?  Thats after their legs and Heads have already been cut off, their guts scooped out, they've been frozen and shipped and cut up…. all because we've grown up doing this to them? 

Again, thank you for listening to me, those of you not smart enough to realise you could have fastforwarded through my whinging, thanks for those minutes of your precious time!  Thats the reason I'll always be single, because New Zealand Women, gee, its great to generalize, isn't it?, they don't put up with any of that sentimental crap in Men.  Thats why the original Cutting Crew version couldn't be successful if originally released in 2011, its too whiny, emotional!  Men cant show those feelings outside of the 1980's, cmon!

No, if they released that song now, it would have to be pitch shifted up, the vocals processed, some phat bass added, and perhaps rap lyrics too.  I actually prefer this Jay Z sampling

And lets go a step beyond synthesizers, auto tune our voices like Mr T Pain, and rap about cars, money, alcohol and the women who appreciate such men, you know, REAL men:


Now, no couple minute audio file could ever sum up your feelings for someone you loved dearly, but we can use something symbolic.  Theres plenty of songs about young African American boys, surname Jackson, who have Mouse Friends called Ben, but…. what of birds?

Well, apparently inspired from this song from 1965, "The Duck"

Hey, thats songs actually not bad, not bad at all.

However, it spawned THIS monstrosity, from the year 1976… Roger, Carolyn, I'm sure you'll remember this BLOODY AWFUL ABOMINATION…

reminds me of that AWFUL movie "Howard The Duck"…. the 70's have a lot to answer for, preferably at The Hague.  A duck who declares "gotta have me a woman", and does that PERVERTED, Muttley style wheezing snicker?  "Try your luck, don't be a cluck"  Cripes.

But it established a naming convention, music genre, bird name.  Well, we can tweak that a little, making it gender specific, and for MODERN dance music.  Why, we'd have the House Music Hen Friend, the Rave Party Rooster.

Roosters are proud, extravagant animals, proud of themselves, Mr Rooster wouldn't want some sappy ballad to his memory, he'd want a blistering techno trance song, with strobing lasers and fog machines, naturally.  I hear this remix and think of a small Rooster who liked eating Falafel off my plate, who always ran to see me when I returned home, who would find food for the Hens, letting them take it from his beak, and keeping his family safe.  I hope you'll hear that too, a victorious little Rooster, or, at least a sample of Gorillaz:

Despite the trendy techno tinge to this tribute, I'll be staying single, I'll still love and care for my remaining Chicken Friends.  Lets listen to how much he enjoyed Falafel, here he is cautiously taking it off my plate, and telling the other Chickens its great!  He shared it with them afterwards, when they were all on the ground, and I could give each their share.  I'll add a link to my YouTube videos, where you can see Mr Rooster, , j a y , w o n t , d a r t , I'll share it around on Facebook and my blog.

  I loved you Mr Rooster.

Time for some more positive, less whiny and  less emotional news.  I'm working on several projects for the Invercargill Vegan Society, such as a proper website for INVSOC, and Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals, and perhaps some logo'd items…. more about those in coming episodes.  I've also bought some domains, such as , for a New Zealand website. , no blogspot.  In fact, I might move away from blogger altogether, going to a crappy Wordpress site instead, with that address,

I'm enjoying the projects I have in the pipeline, and I hope to have some actual members in Invercargill soon, I'm planning on meeting at least two other Vegans who live in my city, its not just me feeling sorry for myself. 

Lets be upbeat, we've got plenty to do, lots of Non Vegans to convert with our V Rays, especially the young, get them while they're young and impressionable, with those nice soft skulls, so permeable to Veganising rays.

Another thing that influences the young, radio DJ's.  Dr Roger Yates, official Sociologist of the Invercargill Vegan Society, put that on your CV Roger, had some time to kill, and so put up with me forcing my way onto his show, On Human Nonhuman Relations.  Here was one of my suggestions for his "The Boring Old…" bit, since we both pretend to be "on the radio", why not combine our quirks, for a solid thirty seconds odd of shock jock mayhem.  Well, turns out his Doctor, um, I forget who, the Dr Intro idea was better. 


You can find Rogers fabulous show, with all the bells and whistles at www., or on iTunes, On Human Nonhuman Relations.

This episode, I'd like to discuss a recent New Zealand radio panel, on the show ARW, Animal Rights and Wrongs, the topic being Vegans promoting Veganism, or Vegans promoting Welfare Reform.  I found it quite exciting to listen to, I'd been looking forward to that weeks episode, and I hope you'll enjoy it too. 

Here are some clips from that episode of Animal Rights and Wrongs from April 9th 2011:

An interesting topic to be sure, I entirely agree with Sam.  Now, we know what to expect from the SPCA, the "Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals", which as we know, really means pat the cat and be nice to the family dog, while feeding them the ground and chopped and blended corpses of Chickens and Cows, from the SPCA's own brand of "petfood".  It makes me sick thinking about it, a group supposedly out to prevent "cruelty to animals", while killing my Chicken Friends, and Cows, probably other animals too. 

We know thats what the SPCA stands for, but, what about SAFE?  Sam mentioned that SAFE should really stand up for Animal Rights, not welfare, they portray themselves as Animal Rights, but almost always ask for larger cages, or for animals to be kept a certain way, you know, before we kill them. 

Heres the bit where I pretend I've never heard this panel discussion before, "gee, I sure would like to know what their opinions are on this matter!  I wonder how we could possibly find out, hmm, maybe if some guy played the clips right now"
<3 what we stand for>

I can agree with that too, I want to live in a world without anyone being hurt, be they human animals, or nonhuman animals.  Lets see how we can get to that point:

<4 mike king "they need the money to come in, donations">
Do large groups need donations to help other animals?  Actually, do we even need large groups?  Surely theres some appeal in hundreds of groups across the world, of all sizes, speaking in their area for Veganism?  Why do we need large groups, with full time staff, buildings, electricity bills, vehicles and annual donation events?  We can have just as much, perhaps far greater reach on a budget of zero dollars and zero cents, online, and through passionate people doing what they love.  I'm looking at getting a hosted website soon, thats about a hundred New Zealand dollars per year, another twenty for the domain name, a hundred and twenty dollars per year for each groups website is really not that much, especially if all members "put some money towards it".  Plus pamphlets and our time, surely, its never been easier to promote respect for everyone?

<5 sams criticism>
<6 rights SPCA>

I think its worth exploring, I think Animal Rights groups should focus on promoting Animal Rights, but Animal Welfare groups?  Well, don't be making buggy whips, for abusing horses with when Mr Ford puts out that quality American automobile…., do we even need Animal Welfare groups anymore?  What do they do?  Promote harsh penalties for people who throw stones at a cat or dog, while making their money from selling chopped up animals, selling their nonexistent souls to flesh companies, "Freedom Foods", "SPCA approved"?

<8 safe IS rights (deleted 7) >

Has it really though?  How do we determine a success or failure with welfare campaigns?  Its a success because these pigs will be out of one kind of cage, supposedly, starting in a few years?  Is that worth spending millions of dollars on, not to mention time and effort?  I think theres much to be said about "animal welfare victories" promoting MORE Non Veganism, not more Veganism, more NON Veganism, because Non Vegans feel better about what they are doing, "oh, its ok to buy this product, because its humane, its kind, its good, its welfare approved, its lovely, its great, its normal, its the right thing to do".  The issue of NOT killing other animals for our enjoyment or profit isn't mentioned, the idea that its wrong to hurt and kill other sentient beings, its not mentioned.  That may sound "more complicated to explain", I don't think it NEEDS to be difficult to understand, just think of how we explain why WE are Vegan to those curious.  I'd say "Other animals are my friends, and I think its very wrong to hurt or kill them, especially when its not necessary".  I'd then show those interested photos and videos of my Chicken Friends, focusing on why Veganism is POSITIVE, why we should all BE Vegan, and NOT the opposite, Welfare orientated view, which is why we should NOT do X, the graphic, undercover videos that have been edited, "and here the worker abuses the pig with a broken vodka bottle, do you want to be responsible for this?  Look at the cockroaches running up the walls, do you feel good about yourself?  Do you WANT to feel good about yourself?  Then pay a dollar more, and know you've bought your place in heaven, with Happy Flesh Farms"

Friendship is not hard to understand, small children, day old Chickens can understand trust and love, why do adults move away from these simple realizations?  We CAN focus on friendship, respect, and treating others the way we'd like to be treated ourselves, we really can.  You don't have to believe in a divine superman to believe in yourself, to believe in whats right.  Just so long as you don't REALLY believe you can fly, that usually ends up bad.  Veganism is not an ideal , its a reality. 

<9 using Mike King>

I don't think Mike King made the campaign successful, we all know Mike King was not Vegan, the average New Zealander who saw him on news shows, or on ads FOR SAFE, he truly was speaking FOR SAFE, he was talking about "don't buy cruel pork…don't buy caged pork…its wrong", even when he didn't explicitly state "I only eat free range…".  When we say "I don't buy Factory Farmed….", most people wouldn't take that as "oh, you're VEGAN then!", no, I believe they see the two choices as "normal flesh" and "Free Rage/Cage Free flesh", its not Non Veganism vs Veganism. 

The main Sunday program covering all this sow crates, "cruel Factory Farming" business featured very close up shots of Mike King frying the flesh of these poor pigs, and eating them.  It made me feel sick to watch. 

And really, you cant argue with the man himself, heres a clip from that episode of Sunday

"No I still love PORK, and why wouldn't I, try that"… that is NOT the actions of an Animal Rights activist, and it surely shouldn't be the frontman for an Animal Rights group.  What are they?  "pork", and he "loves" it.  "and why wouldn't I"… where to begin, as an Animal Rights activist, I'd say because that "pork" as you called it was the body of a sentient being, who loved life just as much as you or Ix do, who mattered just as much as we do, and who was killed for our pleasure, because we "love" killing tens of billions of animals each year, for no real reason other than tradition, we've grown up believing this is ok, and the perceived pleasure we get from it.  And how do we stop this behavior?  By saying we are AGAINST it. 

If the actual frontman for this "ban cages" campaign wasn't moved to Veganism by being in the actual farms, touching these pigs while they were still alive, living like that, why would his testimonial move other Non Vegans towards Veganism?

"the experience put me off caged pork, this is free range, this style of farming is acceptable, and cage farming isn't.…"  if the Invercargill Vegan Society had hiring that guy to speak for us, we, as in me and my Hen Friends would have him lining up for a government benefit faster than three small Hen Friends can peck and scratch a Non Vegans legs. 

True, Mr King didn't hand the reporters bits of dead bodies, served hot DURING actual SAFE ads, however, that Sunday program was surely the largest single resource in the campaign, and it showed him being VERY far from an Animal Rights activist.  The SAFE ads featuring Mike King had him AGAIN saying he was against "cruel pork", he was for getting pigs out of those "cruel cages"… which basically means FREE RANGE.  However you look at it, Mike King clearly is not Vegan, he's shown being Non Vegan, and the group hiring him knew that, and kept him on.  The campaign was not for Veganism, it was for "not buying the bad flesh", and as an Animal Rights activist, founder of an Animal Rights group, I strongly disagree with promoting the exploitation of other animals, of killing my friends, whoever they might be.


That sounds great Lyndsay, although I always recommend AGAINST going for "Vegan Celebrities", because they almost ALWAYS end up being not really Vegan.  Oh, there goes Jordan being the Vegan Police, no, not at all, we'll have an appearance from them later, I do think Vegans should promote a consistent message, and if we build up a huge Vegan Celebrity, where they are selling copies of their latest book faster than people can realise "hey, why the hell are we buying non Toilet intended paper in 2011", making millions while doing so, well, they should AT LEAST be Vegan while preparing for retirement at age 30. 

And about "turning people", I just HAVE to share this clip from 1988, with Ian Mckellen, you know, Gandalf from those lovely NEW ZEALAND movies…, he's proud of his sexuality, Gandalf, I mean, Sir Ian Mckellen is homosexual, and promotes respect for everyone, regardless of if you like men or you like women.  Here we have some conservative MP going on about "homosexuals being blatantly homosexual", and how this could "turn" people Gay…he didn't need to cite scientific evidence of this, its just goddamn true damnit, we have to believe this guy, an expert on homosexuality, despite not being gay himself, and with an attitude like his, no doubt having very few homosexual friends.

Some people are lucky enough to be born Vegan, into Vegan families, others decide to be Vegan on their own accord, they are "turned Vegan", which, unlike pamphlets saying "its normal for you to be homosexual, some people are heterosexual, others are homosexual, you are who you are", Vegan resources CAN "turn" you Vegan.  Unfortunately, Vegans are not yet seen as corrupting an influence as campaigners for equal human rights to love, I'm rather disappointed, I wont be happy until I have pastors picketing my house, declaring "And the Jesus man blew up the city of Vegans, because their sinning, recognition of sentience, was the work of the devil himself…"

I'll only be too happy if more famous people are Vegan, and that includes All Blacks, that little sports team of ours, but really, a Vegan is a Vegan, who cares how well known you are?  I don't think it matters to our Chicken Friends when we hurt and kill them, if they were hurt and killed for their bodies to be eaten by a celebrity or not.  My Chicken Friends wouldn't know if I was famous, they like me for who I am inside.

Lets focus on promoting Veganism to EVERYONE!

<12 free range feel better>

I think promoting "Free Range" and other such products of animal exploitation IS a bad idea, when we can be promoting Animal Rights, friendship, and respect instead.  If people find it "radical" at first, ok, we can continue talking to those interested right now, building a movement so that soon, "Veganism" wont seem radical at all, that the two choices will not be "20 beatings a day vs 19 beatings a day", the 1 less beating given to each animal the result of decades of campaigning, and millions of dollars.  No, it would be between Veganism, and Non Veganism.  And I truly believe that a large number of my generation know what a Vegan is, imagine when its normal to see Vegan restaurants in each and every city in the world, when its common to have Vegan Friends.  We can get to that point very soon, and I say that as someone who's only ever met three Vegans in person, in his whole life.  I'm very optimistic, I see that as realistic.

Ha, well thats being a little TOO direct, I think, "you're gonna be Vegan whether you like it or not", I don't think that would go over so well here in Invercargill, detected Vegan Population consisting of me and a young woman, with rumors of two or three other Vegan resources yet undiscovered. 

I don't think we can force people into Veganism, and I don't think we should act as though we KNOW they will be forced, kicking and screaming, into Veganism.

<21 moved to NZ soymilk>

I agree with Lyndsay, we've really come a long way in a short period of time, I can look around and see the greater use of the term Vegan in printed media, while its still around, on websites, among my friends.  I remember being with my friends, while the top music singles played on tv, a song by 3OH3, it might have been the number one song in New Zealand at the time, my Non Vegan friends were sitting on leather couches and singing along, "tell your boyfriend, if he wants beef, that I'm a Vegetarian, and I aint *click my fingers* scared of him" "she wanna touch me wooooo, she wants to love me wooo, she'll never leave me yahoo….."

It was really weird, and while it was VEGETARIAN, not Vegan, in time it will be the other V word that the musicians prominently mention in Number One singles.  We'll get used to Veganism in the mainstream, there WILL be more Vegan options available, there WILL be more Vegans, and all of this is occurring right now.


Again, Lyndsay is VERY um… DIRECT shall we say, its good to be enthusiastic.  This is my favourite clip of Lyndsay from that episode of Animal Rights and Wrongs


"pus in the milk, feces in the meat", I love it!  I don't like talking about "graphic" or gross out images though, I prefer focusing on the positives of Veganism, of talking about friendship, of always being rated G, suitable for all audiences. 

<26 that guy in invercargill>


<27 >

Oh, yeah, yeah, that guy.


I can agree with that, I think in todays society, Men are beaten and downtrodden, while our estrogen enhanced superiors can do whatever they like, example, try being a tall young man, walking down the mainstreet of your city in a pink tutu, common among women, I know, but for men?  It wont end well.  And thats just one, everyday example of men being held back, well, if mainstream society sees it as weird for a guy to be Vegan, to care for others, to have emotions other than rage or lust, then I'm weird, but still defiantly proud to wear my pink tutu down Dee street.

<31 no chance>

I agree, some people will never accept men in pink tutus, others will, lets do what we feel is right, and in time, others will be more accepting of our lifestyle.  Lets focus on those interested in Veganism, and not trying to get the attention of the people who say "go away, I'm not interested in converting to mormonism".  We jump right back on our black, old fashioned bicycle, and ride off to the next house. 


I can understand that NOBODY likes feeling attacked, or undermined, especially in public.  I prefer not to use terms to describe myself or others, partly because its all above this high school graduates head, but also because people often DONT LIKE to be called a new term, presumably in a derogatory fashion, and I can respect that.  Rather than "Abolitionist" and "New Welfarist", I prefer to keep things simple, Vegans who promote Welfare Reforms, and Vegans who promote Veganism.  I don't think either is a loaded term, "Welfare Reforms" is neutral, its not like "Factory Farming", which is NEVER used by the actual industry, its a slander, and Vegans who promote Veganism, theres nothing positive or negative about that either, although I do think its the right way to go.

About using half naked women in advertising:

<34 does it work>

Yeah, generally I hum whenever other men are talking, or else I try and talk over top of them, especially on Skype, because my opinion is soooo much more valuable than theirs, but yeah, sometimes I DO listen to other men.  Its a guilty pleasure of mine, sorry!

I think there are times when my gender is a disadvantage when talking about Veganism, as well as my age might be too, "oh, he's too young, he doesn't live in the real world, he cant possibly understand why we simply MUST kill these animals which I've grown up having killed, and why we must NOT kill these other animals, who are ethically worth no more, but who I've grown up believing are extra special, no, you can only gain this power of telling one from the other at age 40".

Other times, people are MORE impressed with hearing about Veganism from a young man… usually its a little creepy… when you're alone in a room filled with women, and they say something like "…I think its really neat to meet such a special young man, who is so….passionate…..about…caring for others….", usually, in those situations I try to make a small smile, while clutching my canvas bags, available at cost price from , ready to throw my chair through the plate glass window, and hurl myself out to safety, in case they make a move on me

And run like the wind the hell away.

<35 some men like half naked ladies>

And some men like neither "rugby", a bunch of men putting their heads between each others legs and grunting, nor women made to wear fake plant bikinis, while handing out brochures for the new high welfare Temple Grandin owned and operated steakhouse down the road.  These men just want to wear their pink tutus down Dee Street, and be left the asexual hell alone.

<36 southland man>

Gee, how do we get a Southland man to be Vegan… no idea, where could we ever find one of those?  You know the ones… , the ones who speak like this, who say rrrr sounds really weird, like, in "I work in Gore", young men who were born at Kew Hospital, here in Invercargill, weighing six pounds and five ounces, whatever those were, oh, and this Southland Vegan guy would probably go on and on about backwards nations who hadn't caught up with the metric system, and people who DIDNT use Apple computers and equipment, who always found a way to turn conversations to Michael Jackson or his Chicken Friends...

and they have Chicken Friends…. oh right, then they're not technically "good ol kiwi blokes", being classed as too effeminate. 

Yeah, so they have to be Southern Men who are only interested in watching the rugby, asking *The Wife* to cook the man some blinking Tofu, so they can continue drinking beer?  Well, I'll let you know if I can find one of them.

Until he's found, this can end the ARW episode clips

But it doesn't end there, through the magic of Skype, we're magically transported into further discussion of Veganism.

I'm glad Chris, Debra and Michael could join me for my show.

I'd like to better explain my zany Subway analogy,  rather than asking for McDonalds to kill other animals "better", welfare reform, I was TRYING to say people can get used to a new corporation, new food, a new idea, that it can indeed overtake McDonalds, the industry leader for decades, and in a short time too.  We don't need to tinker around the edges, and regulate atrocities, we can promote a new business, a new chain, a new idea, or newfound respect for all animals, from the ground up, and in a short time really become mainstream, indeed, overtake the mainstream, to be well established, and rake in lush third quarter profits.  And if we start taking off, with our message of respect for all animals, and the "dominant restaurant" notices, and tries to win back "customers" with "hey, we're kind to the ingredients before we kill it!" ads, eh, thats to be expected, lets keep on being ourselves, or,  keep being me, like everyones favourite Canadian rapper would say

Well, this episode is over.

Thank you for listening to Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals.

You can find the script for this episode, as well as downloads for every episode of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals at coexisting with nonhuman animals . co .nz

To show off how fancy I am, I've been using Bit Ly links for each episode, a shortcut to each episodes script and sources.  For this show, Episode 53's sources,  just go to .

If you want to contact me, even just to say you listened, send an email to, or on Twitter, if you're one of the five people in the world still using it, j a y w o n t d a r t,  I'd appreciate it.

Thank you for listening.


Animal Rights and Wrongs show, download episodes here

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