Saturday, February 5, 2011

Episode 46 Oprah goes... Vegan, "Veg*n", "veganish"...

Episode 46 Oprah goes…Vegan, "Veg*n", "Veganish" : she came, saw a fad diet, and was "challenged"

Listen by downloading directly here or better yet, subscribe in iTunes and get all episodes automagically, as they come out :-)

Covering the 1st of February 2011 episode of "Oprah", which was apparently "about Veganism", which is actually a diet you know!  Oh, and "The Veganist", the world authority on Veganism believes that "singing Hens" produce ethical Eggs for our consumption, and that "small scale" raising and killing of Animals is a great thing!  But if you cant find a Hen who sings as she pops out Eggs for your breakfast, you should be Vegan…

You can download the episode of Oprah from a link on my earlier blogpost, its about 350MB and 40 minutes in length.

This episode of Oprah will no doubt be remembered as an important moment from 2011, for "Veganism".  Whether we agree or not with "The Veganist" and the promotion of a diet, to lose weight, that happens to be "Vegan", it will have been watched by millions of people worldwide, and deserves coverage.

I hope I've done my bit to talk about the episode.

Thank you to Lucas from for a great intro, clip AND rap about Veganism!  Also to the always fantastic Barbara DeGrande ( )  for her opinion on this episode of Oprah.

Hello and welcome to another fair to middling episode of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals.

Episode 46 Oprah goes…Vegan, "Veg*n", "Veganish" : she came, saw a fad diet, and was "challenged"

This episode, its all about Oprah, the talk of the world, "omigosh, Oprah's going Vegan…again…."  "oh boy, imagine having Oprah as another one of those amazing Celebrity Vegans!"  "I bet EVERYONE will go Vegan after watching 40 minutes of Oprah talking about Veganism!"

Well, it didn't quite turn out that effective.  I managed to smuggle in a copy of the episode, when it comes to such matters, don't ask, don't tell.  I extracted the audio and listened at work.  I did my usual trick of ripping out bits of paper with my teeth, power drill with wire brush attachment in one hand, fairly blunt pencil in the other, "1m 33s Oprah says…".

Several times I was so surprised by what was said, I could have hurt myself with the tools being used.  In particular, what "The Veganist", as she was dubbed, said… incredible. The Veganist sure wasnt Elizabeth Collins, no, we've got another Erik Marcus situation, where "The Veganist", apparently the worlds leading expert on Veganism (who JUST HAPPENS to be peddling a book right now, nice how the stars align sometimes, right?), and she appears to be a follower of Vegan Dot Com.  Near the end of the show, there were several times when Oprah was basically TALKED OUT of Veganism, and by The Veganist herself too!  We all know and love "well, I'm Vegan until 6 at night…", and who isn't proud to have a tattoo of "Veg*n" on their forehead?  Well, hopefully you can still fit in the hip new term, "Veganish" on your face too.

But first, my bumper was from Lucas Hayes, boy, if only there were some way he could introduce himself to us all…

Lucas heard my last episode, espousing the wonders of Rap Music.  And what do you know, Lucas is a musician himself :

Thank you very much for recording a bumper, a special clip AND allowing me to use one of your songs Lucas.  I've linked to his site, in my shownotes.  And if I ever see the Mayor of Invercargill, Tim Shadbolt walking down Esk street, I'll tell him to ring you Lucas, sure.  Isn't it wonderful that Vegans all around the world know the location of the Invercargill Vegan Society so well?  Its not like they could see who our Mayor is on Wikipedia, or fire up Google Maps and grab a random street name.

Heres the first clip I've made from the latest Oprah episode on Veganism

<1 intro>

I'm going to TRY and be a decent human being, and not cuss out everyone who appeared on the show.  Right from the beginning, Veganism was represented as some sort of wonder diet, some kind of " Vegan Cleanse", like the last Oprah episode about Veganism, it was some bizarre spiritual rebirth of your colon, don't worry about the dead skin or hair you might wear.  It had nothing to do with vivisection or shooting other animals.  Veganism was portrayed as a diet. 

To one of the staff members in that last segment, uhhhh… Vegans still drink Coffee you know… I guess it was portrayed as a "radical", "extreme" diet, like the past Cleanse, giving off ideas like Vegans don't eat sugar, or coffee, that we try and take the fun out of living.  I wouldn't be surprised if Oprah understands Veganism as having a testament against buying more than one ply toilet paper, "ohhhh, think of the starving children in …quick Jordan, think of a far away country…. America…, every time we buy soft toilet paper, an angel cries…"

Being Vegan has nothing to do with avoiding socks and only hugging two people a year.  Vegans avoid treating other animals as things, as "ingredients", we do not wear, consume or use other animals in any way.  You can drink coffee, and be Vegan.  And being Vegan is not a "challenge", just ask the guy in the Canary yellow shirt reading "its easy to be Vegan", with "if you think its difficult, imagine how hard it is for the animals that you're not Vegan" on the back.  I believe you can find photos of him, with his fly down of course, at

Every (bowel) Movement needs a celebrity figurehead, and guess what, the "lets think about what we eat!" movement has….

<2 pollan>

Yap yap yap, we've got to dream up cool terms for ourselves, such as "conscientious omnivores" and new ways to boast, " I only eat humanely processed, small scale farmed, locally sourced flesh"….

<3 kids these days>

Not this one again, ok, well I don't know about the flesh served in America, but in NZ, there are bones involved.  And even the softest Tofu in the packet knows the flesh was attached to bones at one time.  I find it hard to believe anyone would NOT know that flesh, or "meat" is the muscle tissue of animals…  We may not be encouraged to think about it, we may not WANT to think about it, we want to all see the Emperors clothes too… but surely, we generally know enough that we don't want to know more.  My friends will like to pat my Chicken Friends, and then invite me over to their house, where they'll show off what they are having for their next meal…a shrink wrapped packet with the pink, slimy looking body parts from six or more Chickens, no less lovely than those I see alive each day.

<4 elitist flesh>

What an elitist!  And even MORE terms now, "industrial meat", what the heck is that?  Just like "factory farming", its meaningless!  Mr Pollan, you're against "industry"?  But are you not pimping out "free range", "small scale" flesh in the rest of this episode?  Do you expect each consumer to kill other animals themselves?  A cottage industry?  Oh wait, thats still an " industry"…  And however we kill them, however we treat them, we're still talking about treating other animals, other sentient beings as things, as an ingredient that we kill…because we always have?  Because we believe we LIKE eating them?

<5 welfare>

Ah, so you looked into the issue of killing 56 Billion land animals each year, and found a way to continue on the same path, did you?  And guess what, its all about "welfare"!  A bunch of large groups, funded by donations invent fancy new terms, Mr Pollan sells books about them, and the same number, perhaps more animals are killed.  But now the slimy boneless gunk that the childrens cant identify now has a "get out of guilt free" sticker on it, right next to "Free range", and "cage free".


You see children, theres the moment Uncle Jordan lost all the fingers on his left hand due to an industrial accident….

How in the *blink* can  "The Veganist" POSSIBLY say its ok to eat "That Egg", ….and NOT ONLY THAT… she was asked about Eggs taken from Female Chickens, Hens, who knows where the Male Chickens go to, the Happy Meat promoters would have you believe "heaven", … she THEN goes on to mention a morally acceptable way to eat flesh, or "meat".  This is UNREAL!, from The Worlds Leading expert on Veganism, appearing on Oprah, being beamed into the brains of a few million people around the world, quote "its ok to have that egg, ABSOLUTELY, because its a natural (*cough* menstrual) cycle for the Chicken…but what I would say to you *insert name here* is that not everyone has that kind of access to those kind of eggs, the ones with the singing Hens, or, you know, back to a direct quote, "humanely raised meat from small farms", endnote.

And Oprah mentions she has access to the Singing Hen Egg Company, with the picture of a smiling Vegan giving the thumbs up on each Egg, in waterbased all natural dye of course, and the crowd laughs.  Several times this happens, Oprah is presumably genuine about hearing of Veganism, and The Veganist actually moves her, and the millions of people listening AWAY from Veganism, to some kind of magical, Happy Animal Byproducts, into the realm of the "Veganish".

And the audience ends up laughing at the little jokes, of singing Hens, of how Oprah has enough money to buy "The Good Kind of Egg".  Theres nothing funny about this.  An Egg is rather disgusting, I don't really like even touching them, when I break them for my Chicken Friends.  I mean, this thing was formed inside each Hens organs, her guts, slimy pink things, and it came out her vent, basically from her bottom!  Even if you could eat some kind of C section removed Egg, where each of these singing Hens has a zipper lovingly added to her body, why would you WANT to?

Seriously.  The Veganist goes out and describes "happy eggs" and how to raise "Happy Meat", quote "humanely raised from small farms".  Unreal.  As insane as the web address Vegan Dot Com promoting this kind of nonsense.

Here we find out a candid reaction to Veganism from a staff members family,
Yes Children, 1.95 Metre tall people live on Apples alone :-)  Isn't it interesting that young children have already been brought up to think not eating "ingredients" taken from other animals would be weird, or even disgusting!  What disgusting about beans, compared to brains?  Of Broccoli compared to…uh, Esophagi?  


Lots of reports about, uh, "gas"…  I'm sure you've always wanted to know, but I've never been a person to often …pass gas… and I rarely, if ever burp.  I don't believe this has anything to do with being Vegan, the people I know who most often, and I mean every meal….are rude at the dinner table…. were hunters, non Vegan, they would openly … shall we say, be rude.

Perhaps it is a matter of adjustment.  Its certainly immature to go on about it, as we'll notice later


Ok, so I'll stop here, how do these massive beings put on weight?  Through protein, gained from eating Corn.  I've heard of other things given to quote "livestock" in America, of their own waste fed back to them, "rich in protein", the stuff seems to be everywhere.  I cant imagine anyone in New Zealand saying "but where do you get your protein?", I think it must be due to some linking of Protein = flesh in the US, like I guess we might get challenged on where our calcium is obtained from….  but nevertheless, tell them that we, like other animals, can gain our "protein" from Vegan sources, as well as non Vegan sources.  Our bodies may well be very different to a Cows in terms of digestion, but I have no problem with getting protein. 


Yes, they are, you'd almost think they had a mind of their own too, right?  But don't let those bleeding heart communist Animal Rights people corrupt your mind.  We're going to mention how these sentient beings are "curious", and then have them killed in a few days.

<11 dignity>

There is no "dignity" or "natural order" involved, we may choose to believe that, like we choose to believe in many patently unreal ideas.  It doesn't make something true though.  We are not ORDERED to kill other animals, "naturally" or not, its as easy to be Vegan as not.  I might sound critical of the slaughterhouse workers, I definitely feel VERY STRONGLY against what they do to others, I don't hate them though.  Its a waste of time believing them to be the spawn of Satan, the product of an unholy alliance between Hitler and Palin.  They've grown up this way, they apparently believe in what they believe, and by being aggressive to them, I don't think we can make them see our point of view.  Calling them "Animal Exploiting *censored* *bleeped* *blink* holes" gets us nowhere.  It doesn't help anyone.

There is no nice way to deny anothers rights.  Another sentient beings emotions, feelings, desire to live.  To take away their life, for our own enjoyment.


It is upsetting, but surely, this is "the natural order", and we should all be doing this, right?  We should have young children out there, shooting things through "its" head, right?  Nonhuman animals are not an "it", they are not a "thing", they are no different than you or I.  I have no doubts that my Chicken Friends enjoy their lives just as much as I do mine.  Many animals can see better than we can, some even in the dark, others can jump higher, hear quieter sounds, or even fly.  Why would we believe their right to life were drastically below our own? 


"rendered insensible to pain", "stuck", "blood letting", a "death process" and "they don't feel any sensation at all".  What absolute politically correct nonsense.  They cant feel pain anymore?  Thats because we've knocked them out, they are "stuck", or as we might say, we've cut their throats, they are not "blood letting" as part of a "death process", they are BLEEDING TO DEATH.  No different than if another human were to do this to us.  We wouldn't let someone off for killing another person, because they used some Welfare Approved, "humanely slaughtered" jargon, would we?


"the living creature they WERE", and "making use of everything, letting nothing go to waste".  What an awful thing to say, how about we respect the living creatures that they ARE?  Do victims of murder really care if we use their skin to make lampshades after their deaths?  "oh well, you used every part of me, so I guess my family cant complain"?

The process is efficient because it would be silly for it to be wasteful.  This is a business, billions, perhaps ka-jillions of New Zealand peso's are at "steak" here, see what I did?  Money doesn't grow on trees, even in Nuclear free New Zealand, that place where they shot the three movies about magical creatures!  Money is made by selling little plastic packets of slimy muscle.  Its made by killing 56 Billion land animals each year.


Some of us apparently care how "meat" is made, we like being told we're doing the right thing by doing what we've always grown up doing, just looking for that golden ticket, that magic label, "A Temple Grandin designed (man)slaughterhouse killed me!  Dig in kids!"

We sure don't care about the animals being killed though.  It seems theres no money in friendship, unless you have lots of rich friends, who leave you everything in their will, and you keep leaving banana skins at the top of their stairs.


wheres my script, my talking points for this show…. "no, they are rendered insensible to pain, they do not suffer, they like the death process, it goes to heaven with a smile on its designated facial area, they love having their central nerve cluster bashed in by an employee on minimum wage…"

We don't hire psychos to kill animals here at Slaughterhouse X! 

This kind of talk, of stress, of dark, of stunning, and blows to the head, of throat slitting really makes me think of The Silence of the Lambs.  Those movies, those audiobooks really made me think about what we did to other animals.  Silence of the Lambs has Buffalo Bill enjoy imagining his victims point of view, how he would trick them by appearing injured, wearing a fake cast, as if he had a broken arm, of trapping young women in his van by asking for help moving a couch.  He would kill them once they had lost enough weight to make their skin come off easier, and use cow brains to preserve their skin, their "leather".  He talked about keeping their hair too, their scalps, to wear as a wig, sort of like "fur" I guess.

He wanted to be a Woman, kind of, so he killed Women, to wear their body parts.  We often kill large and strong animals, to try and possess their attributes too.  Neither worked out well, either in a fictional book about a psycho killer, or the real life-ending off billions of animals each year.

Buffalo Bill also struck in the dark, he wore Night Vision Goggles, and enjoyed the feeling of invincibility, of being able to see his victim clearly, when they wouldn't struggle, so they wouldn't damage their flesh, their skin, their "byproduct".  He also referred to THEM as an "IT", he denied their rights.  This was mentioned during the plot, when one of the victims mothers appeared on television, using her name, Catherine, Catherine, Catherine whenever possible, hoping that the killer would find it harder to kill her if he would recognize her as another sentient being.

The Silence of the Lambs has many quotes relevant to Veganism, of treating others as things, seeing them as ingredients, that their vital organs our for our enjoyment, that we can kill those we feel are weaker to ourselves, and of how awful it is, well, when Lambs scream.  Thats where the name of the book and movie came from, of the main character being upset by Lambs about to be killed, that she still wakes up and has nightmares about the screaming lambs.  Of her fathers own death, and how she wants to help other victims. 

No they havnt Dr Lecter, we still kill billions of them each year. 

"go back to France ya whiny liberal communist…"


WOOO, go Temple Grandin, a "Visionary" in the field of Animal Rights, at least according to PETA.

Why would Vegans deserve a shout out when it comes to killing animals?  As someone who loves all animals (except for Spiders, and mice who invade your room in the middle of the night), as a Vegan, I'd be rather upset if someone told me I made them decide to kill MORE animals, to enjoy killing them more.

"Animal Rights activists like PETA", yup, sure as heck wasn't Animal Rights activists like me, people who have Chicken Friends who they love, and who love them in return, who sit on their lap to be patted, and who like eating bread from your hands!  We respect that these other animals deserve to live, that they are NOT our property.  They are our friends.    So called "Animal Rights Activists" who "work together" are not OPPOSING the deaths of these animals, they are GIVING IN to the slaughterhouses, are less animals killed?  Are they working to have NO animals killed?  No, they give those who would kill our friends a big tick, "welfare approved", and claim a Victory, while the slaughterhouse keeps killing, and money is made all around.  The animals, the victims of this system would not call this anything near a "victory", and we are doing this, not for ourselves, but for other animals, our friends.

I'm sorry if I sound very angry, pushy or aggressive to non Vegans.  Fighting and arguing with people generally get us nowhere, its like a car bogged down in mud, with the wheels spinning.  Maybe theres a lot of mud being thrown about, but no progress is being made.  If anything, we sink down deeper, into depression, further into the mud.  This is something I feel very passionate about, of other animals being killed, for tradition, for fun, for profit, when they deserve to be respected, to live their lives just as you or I do.

I know what will make me feel better, a song and dance!


Oprah was sued in the past for discussing what actually makes "meat", its a natural process you know, we're at the top of the food chain, but heaven forbid you mention it on mainstream television, with a man formerly in the business, Howard Lyman.  I'll link to the articles about the incident in my shownotes.

Meatless Mondays, hurrah!  Another fancy buzzterm!  Why not a Vegan Vendsday?  Why not join the Invercargill Vegan Society, where we have Animals Are Our Friends day for the rest of our lives?

Hmm, probably because those two bit operations don't have a cool song thats burning up the Top Forty:

No sweat, don't mention it mysterious un-introduced voice at the start and end of that clip!

Time for the definition of Veganism from The Veganist :

During the whole 40 minute episode, the idea that Animals are deserving of our ACTUAL respect, that we see them as sentient beings, as others who are different, but the same, as our friends… this just wasn't covered on the episode at all!
Indeed, it was all about how much weight could be lost, or how you might start farting more.  Oh, but thats just getting used to eating fibre, you know, because the Standard American Diet these days is so….and now you're healthier and organically balanced and your cholesterol levels are…and your skin has cleared up and now the hot girls at school will batt their eyelashes at you…

This was not a show about Animal Rights.  It had a lot of mention of Animal Welfare, with The Veganist herself actually discussing how to use nonhuman animals as things, of singing Hens, of small scale, quote "humanely raised" flesh….

<23, skip 22>

Thats an interesting way to torpedo Veganism, to bring up some supposedly way in which Vegans may not be impossibly healthy, but in fact, GASP, eat "junk food"!  If I was talking about why you should be Vegan, I wouldn't be assuming Non Vegans live solely on "junk food", on "unhealthy food", why would I?  I'd be talking about how other Animals deserve our respect. 

To even suggest that Vegans MAY not be all healthy, that they may indeed eat Junk Food, oh, and have you ever seen that one Vegan guy who was short?  Yeah, thats because he must have been 5 metres tall, and then he went Vegan and shrunk overnight, because Vegans are soooo unhealthy!  Pass me the Free Range, Organa-magically killed flesh!"

I'm sure there is many kinds of "Vegan Junkfood" out there, this magical place, uh, pardon my pronunciation, "whole, foods?", it seems to have aisle after aisle of fake animal products, probably right next to the five star approved "Happy Meat".

And here we get another example of The Veganist downselling the interested customer:


"yeah, you know, its a personal choice and …BUT HES SEEN ALL THER SURVEYS ABOUT OBESITY!  and so he's this new buzzterm, "veganish",….who am I to tell people what to do, I only make money selling books to people doing just that…"

I realise we as Vegans can not ORDER people what to do, Naturally or not, I really don't think we should mention a new term, or diet, or whatever the heck its meant to be, "Veganish", as some kind of accomplishment. 

And Oprah jumps in, "maybe I'll just be Veganish…"

How do we think The Veganist handles that?


YEAH, THATS GREAT!  So great in fact that her voice broke.

I don't want to be criticizing anyone, thats why I have a podcast where I seem to do just that.  I'm sure The Veganist did a better job on Oprah than I would have, but cmon!  I mean, seriously, I understand it might well be unlikely that people will go Vegan once I snap my fingers, its worth a try though, *snap fingers a few times*, did it work?  Did the world go Vegan?

Oh well.  I sure wouldn't go describing Singing Hens and "small scale" "humanely raised" flesh as being a great, ETHICAL choice though!  And to give huge praise to those incredibly well known people who decide to be "Vegan-ish", while the audience clap, and the millions watching are also introduced to this new travesty of a self identifying term.

And when we find someone who does seem to enjoy Veganism, understanding it as a diet,


Thats not even the best clip about, going to the toilet….  I was really happy for Joe, good for him, its nice to know that someone is feeling better from eating a diet described as "Vegan".  Lets hope that Joe finds out about Veganism, of respecting other animals, by adding "Friend" after their common name.


I personally believe Tofu patties make the best burgers I've EVER had, along with Falafel, tomato, red onion and lettuce.  Very simple, and delicious.  But that really is a personal taste, I guess.  Notice more of how "Free Range" grants you an "exemption", where did that come from?  From Animal Rights activists promoting Welfare.  That its GOOD to kill these animals, as long as we say thank you as they bleed to death.  I mean, as they proceed through the death process, having being stuck during initialization of the processing stage.


Fast food is not the devil, I've eaten and enjoyed Subway before, I make sure its Vegan though.  I've checked before hand, and asked the "Sandwhich artist", I believe thats what they call themselves in America, land of the Buzzword, "is this Vegan?"  If other people in the line hear, great, thats one more time they've heard the term Vegan, perhaps they'll be curious!

<29>  Congratulations on going to the toilet! 

Seriously, is this normal, for Non Vegans to go to the toilet once a week, perhaps once in eight days? 


Yes, it was all a diet, it was about denying yourself what you wanted, as a "challenge", to lose weight, so you would be able to go to the toilet again.  Veganism is useful for Male Breast Reductions. 


Yes, somehow another apparently unhealthy person was found, and this DIET is credited with changing his life, and he lost a lot of weight too!  I feel great for Rich, congratulations on being healthier, I don't think this can all be attributed to the wonders of a Vegan challenge though.  Perhaps just thinking about what you ate helped?  I've been Vegan for a couple of years now, and I didn't lose 11 of these "pounds", about 5 Kilograms a week lets say, I probably put on muscle if anything.  While I was Vegetarian, not eating animal flesh, not drinking milk, not wearing skin, but eating products that contained a Cows breast milk, I cycled 66 kilometers a day, about 40 miles, I think,  for over a year.  I wouldn't have been able to do that if I weighed a negative number, from all that weight lost each week.  I also wouldn't call myself "Veganish".  I wasn't Vegan, if I wanted to, I could cycle that far again, if I had the free time.  But now I've got Chicken Friends, and a podcast script to write, and thats more enjoyable. 

So Veganism, which is a diet you know, that makes you lose weight, was being built up into something magical.  Time for a reality check.


"theres nothing evil about meat…some meat in your diet is really fine", to which The Veganist answers "I totally agree with you".

Well, I don't think flesh has to be EVIL, *evil laugh, muahhahahahhahaha*, or that Tofu is made by little Angels.  I don't believe a knife that has been put fatally through someones heart is evil.  But I don't think "some meat in your diet is totally fine".  We should not be killing other animals because we enjoy the taste of their bodies, their flesh.  Thats gross!  And its wrong to kill them. 


This was about the closest the episode got to talking about Animal Rights, about why we shouldn't kill animals, because we recognize them as our friends.  Close maybe, but not quite.  That clip was 41 seconds long, the episode, without ads was 41 minutes and 55 seconds long, at least the version I have.  It wasn't really brought up, except at the end.  Talk about our souls, of personal belief systems, of compassion.  And it was easily swatted away, thanks to Welfare Promotion

Unbelievable, "its ok to kill them, because they don't suffer, we've blown up their brains, we've bashed them over the head, thats humane!"  Would we feel that way if another person did that to someone we loved?  If they did that to a complete stranger?  Thats why I don't agree with that, because I recognize other animals, human and nonhuman as SOMEONE. 

Temple Grandin might be good at designing quote "conscious" slaughterhouses, you know, the kind where they make sure the animals are "unconscious" before they rip them apart, the GOOD kind of (man)slaughterhouse, with Grandin putting the LAUGHTER in sLAUGHTERhouse, producing Happy Meat.  But, she doesn't kill birds!  And theres like, a big big number of birds killed!  Presumably, for The Veganist, the solution is that we beg and plead until Temple Grandin figures out "The Good Way" to kill Chickens, no different to the ones I love.


"happy lives, one bad day", HUGE LAUGHS.  This is not a funny subject, of tens of billions of animals, of, of, of, being killed, for what?  Our pleasure, our profit?  I wouldnt give a damn if the person who killed me had killed many people before me that day, or comparatively few people before me that day.  Why would animals care how many employees are on the pay roll?


You see that, you big divisive Vegans who promote Veganism?  You've turned your back on the animals suffering today, you ran away, cowards!  WE'VE got to REFORM this awful practice, not get rid of it silly!


After pimping their books, and their slaughterhouses, we hear how the manager of one slaughterhouse, designed by Animal Rights "visionary" Temple Grandin LOVES Vegans!  They're all about hugs and kisses, happy meat, and high welfare!  We love the people who are utterly disgusted with what we do!  What an odd thing to say. 

I try not to hate those who kill animals, or who are not Vegan.  Hate gets us nowhere, Violence is the problem , not the solution.  I don't want to have an enemies list.  I want to have a smile on my face while I talk about Veganism, with I'm Vegan and I love you" badges on my overalls, with a metal case filled with Invercargill Vegan Society business cards, AND, a few from Animal Rights and Rescue of North Texas, a group formed by Barbara DeGrande. 

I have one last clip, from Barbara DeGrande about her thoughts on the episode of Oprah.

I was always going to mention Barbara, no, not because she paid me off with Agave Nectar and genuine "hotsauce" from Texas.  But because she has a nice voice to listen to.  Oh, and she's a wonderful person too.  I do enjoy having business cards from her, to show that even on the other side of the world, there is at least ONE more Vegan alive and active!  Its not just some phony business card for a One Man Vegan society, led by a "dictator for life".   You can find Barbara at

If you'd like to send me any business cards, I'd be honoured to show and give them out to people.  Its great to show how Veganism is world wide.  And it doesn't rely on "The Veganist", telling people about how great Singing Hens are, of "humanely raised" flesh.

I guess I too was disappointed, and shocked by this episode of Oprah on Veganism.  I really thought it would have SOME coverage of Veganism as an ethical baseline, of WHY Vegans feel this way towards other animals.  Instead, it really was 90 something percent about losing weight, of feeling better.  Of setting a world record for most gas passed, of toilet paper used. 

I hope we can all comment on coverage of this episode of Oprah.  I've noticed more people visiting my website, who've arrived from my comments elsewhere.  The more we talk about actual Veganism, which is not a diet, a way of losing weight, the more Vegans there will be. 

Thank you for listening to Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals.

You can find the script for this episode, as well as downloads for every episode of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals at coexisting with nonhuman animals .

If you want to contact me, even just to say you listened, send an email to, or on Twitter, j a y w o n t d a r t,  I'd appreciate it.

Thank you for listening.


My previous blogpost where you can download the episode of Oprah (while it stays up)

Lucas Hayes

"The Veganist"

Oprah, Howard Lyman sued for discussing the truth about flesh

From Lyman himself

1 comment:

  1. Thanks for having me, Jordan!

    I'm still waiting on that call from that "nice person" Tim.


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