Friday, November 18, 2011

Episode 68 Changing The World With "Inedible" Vegan Cake

Episode 68 Changing The World With "Inedible" Vegan Cake

The Cookbook for People Who Love Animals, Gentle World, Occupy Invercargill, Mayor Tim Shadbolt, Power Fighting, "Vegetarian" tech journalists.

Steve Jobs the "Vegan"/"Vegetarian"/"Fruitarian" - Nothing to do with Veganism, but one mans trumped up obsession with crazy short term fad diets.

Ulva Island poison shows up in fish, Endangered New Zealand snails frozen to death from climate change (of a refrigerator), whining "dairy" farmers, Too-Small-Battery-Cage-Doors, Clockwork Oranges, Techno Music and MICHAEL JACKSON!!!

Listen now by downloading directly from here or, better yet, subscribe in iTunes to get each episode automagically!
Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals iTunes link

Hello and welcome to episode 68 of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals.

Thank you to everyone who joined me for my World Vegan Day episode, it was great to celebrate with Vegans from around the world, including those poor souls unlucky enough not to attend the inaugural Invercargill Vegan Society potluck dinner :-)

I visited Occupy Invercargill, our local branch of the terrifying social movement occupying defenseless cities around the globe.  I brought down some Vegan cake, and Boston Vegan Association pamphlets on Veganism.  The cake was well received, and I hope the pamphlets have been well read.

Occupy Invercargill - a city where even the Mayor personally came down, shook all their hands, said he'd have a porta-loo dropped off, have the reserves power switched on for them to use….gave them a signed copy of his book, signed the visitors book, and gave them a business card, which he wrote his personal cellphone number on, for if there were any problems with the city council or police.  

Now, compared to the images I've seen from America, with Oakland, California police and the New York Police Department unleashing tear gas, pepper spray, "Long Range Acoustic Devices", designed to hurt your ears, giant bulldozers to clear the encampments, ha, fun word to use, 

With such a shocking, totalitarian, Orwellian, level of corruption and total police clampdown, Fight The Power brothers (and sisters), so that one day, in America, women will be allowed to sit at the front of buses, and peaceful protests wont result in heads being mashed in by Oakland riot police, nor New York police officers throwing tear gas here there and everywhere: 

1989….that brings me back….to when a young Jordan Wyatt was TWO years old….just like Michael Jacksons album "Bad".

That Invercargill Mayor Tim Shadbolt will help anyone out though, he'll even read from a piece of paper pinned to your Herbivore Clothing sweatshirt with an INVSOC badge!

Hey, every Vegan occasionally says "vague anne", even the mayor with the name of his cities leading export, Vegan podcasts!

Invercargill Mayor Shadbolt, and to make my accent clear, I'm meaning the leader of a city, the big chief, the big kahuna, like Mayor Quimby in Springfield, as the Americans might say, "may-yaw", as we English speakers say "Mare", our Mayor Shadbolt will even go along with a joke, for your American friend :

I have some clips to share from a recent episode of This Week in Tech, one of my favourite podcasts, covering general technology news of the past week. 

 Joshua Topolsky, my favourite technology journalist is "vegetarian", whatever that means, BUT, even that in itself must surely be a shift, when mainstream, well known male journalists in the technology field are openly "vegetarian", I hope he'll soon be openly VEGAN.  

A little sad that he mockingly referred to a all "vegetarian BBQ" as "nightmarish", although, thats the kind of lame joke *I* would make, so who am I to complain?  Oh yeah, I'm a guy who LOVES to complain, so I'll keep going.

It can be hard to kick the habit of using speciesist terms, "the MEATY stuff that I really want" etc in our daily speech, the vast majority of our cultures are Non Vegan, and in Joshua Topolskys case, he sits on chairs made from skin, yada yada yada.  He is definitely NOT Vegan, but hopefully that will change soon!

And speaking of someone else well known in the tech industry….what about that Steve Jobs guy, he was Vegan, right?

Also from TWiT, being reported on by non Vegan host Leo Laporte:

The angle so many reporters have taken on the so called "strict, radical, extreme Veganism" of Steve Jobs has been to hype it up, that he was some kind of abstaining monk, above the pleasures of the flesh, so to speak.  I think a lot of these claims have been trumped up by Non Vegan reporters covering the evolution of Steve Jobs into an all powerful, 2001: A Space Odyssey Starchild, the man who gave us the iPhone couldn't possibly die, that would mean he was mortal, by claiming Jobs was Vegan, it makes him out to be even "weirder", more attention grabbing, it gets more clicks for news stories when they make the guy out to be some zany Willy Wonka-esque character.

I spoke with my friend Edward on his new podcast about Steve Jobs, it was a rather odd interview, he didn't really have a direction…he just asked me when I was ready to go, hung up the Skype call, rang me back instantly, and went unedited from there, as you can hear!

< dreamy robot interview, use intro clip, link to it in shownotes, link that into play first minute or so, include a little bit about NZ>

I explained to Edward and his listeners that I thought the media were hyping up any so called "Veganism" of Steve Jobs, and Edward himself, who sees himself as someone who avoids eating MOST animals, for perceived health reasons, had many questions to me, "do you think his Veganism CAUSED his cancer?….oh, so you think if he really HAD been Vegan, he would have lived to be a thousand?  Because Vegans cannot get cancer, or die, at least until they are in the quad digits?" etc, presumably serious!  

I tried to be as rational as could be, "well my good friend, you have it exactly right, Vegans CANT be stopped, we run on love and rainbows and hugs…."

No, I said that I knew very little about cancer, if I *did* have the cure, I wouldn't be talking on our podcasts, but would be cashing in!  I've heard about simple infections costing patients over a thousand USD to fix in America, for a simple doctors check and a bottle of antibiotics, imagine how much money there would be for a guy who could truly cure cancer!

Here are some clips from the Steve Jobs biography itself, by Walter Isaacson, about the many, crazy, every changing dietary fads of Steve Jobs, at least as reported on by the Non Vegan author, who mispronounced Vegan as "vague ann" on some of the mainstream interviews I've seen, he would bring up the topic of this "vague anne" guy, who believed in alternative medicine, and perhaps in magic.  Well, as we all know, the only magic in this world lies inside the iPad, Apple have patented the hell out of it.

If you listen to these clips, most are roughly a couple years apart, but some are separated by merely a month or two, where Steve Jobs would have a public tantrum about a dairy product being served to his table in a restaurant, and THEN demand cows milk products at Apple events, along with fish, and goats milk and….. its all some kind of control thing, the need to be different, quickly changing radical fad diets, just for the hell of it, I guess.

We find out about one of Steve Jobs first jobs…cleaning animal experimentation equipment…torture devices…. these clips are centered around events in the 1980's, early 1990's, his "radical" or "strict" or "rigid" Vegan or Vegetarian or Fruitarian diet keeps cropping up every now and then throughout the whole book though.

This one clip pretty much sums it all up:


<5 eased away from being a strict vegan>

Right, because Veganism is some silly fad for the immature, which we grow out of, on par with taking illegal drugs, walking barefoot,  right?

<5 continues>


Veganism has NOTHING to do with "shunning refined products"

Yeah, because when I serve up my Mint Chocolate Mud cake, people go "yo Jordan, after having one solitary crumb of this cake, I'm aware theres no birds eggs, or milk taken from another animal, right?  This crappy cake is inedible", as they hurl it a passing car.  Right?  Well, no, not quite.  People have uniformly, and unanimously enjoyed my "Vegan Cakes", and no, its not because I'm the dreaded Vegan Police, and am ready to go American Police Department on their asses if they politely disagree.

I really think the biographer of the book, Walter Isaacson, trumped up all the "weird", "radical", "strict", "demanding" fad diets of Steve Jobs, often bringing them up for no reason than to add "flavor" to the book.  You know, the same flavor thats lacking from Vegan cake :-)

Heres a fun, local news story, about making a model from actual dead animals bodies, to improve X Ray scanning of recently killed bodies at your friendly, neighborhood slaughterhouse!

"An Invercargill designer believes his business has achieved a world first in prototype development – making a lifelike lamb carcass from polyurethane with bones intact.
Invercargill-based design and prototype company One.61 has spent the past six months designing and building two lamb carcasses that are being used to improve automated X-ray imaging and conveyor machines in meat plants.
Company director Derek Manson said the latest one, made from polyurethane and known as "the phantom", had been completed this week and was being used to calibrate lamb X-ray machines so that cuts from carcasses could be weighed in uniform in meat plants.
The carcass weighed about 20kg, similar to that of a one-year-old New Zealand lamb, and was the closest artificial thing to an organic body for X-ray purposes, he said.
He had heard of human phantoms used for processes such as radiography, but not about a sheep phantom and, because New Zealand companies were typically at the forefront of lamb processing techniques, it was likely to be the first polyurethane lamb carcass in the world, he said.
The process began with cutting a real carcass up, then he had to strip all the meat and tissue from the bones before making a mould to put them back into to form the carcass, he said.
Dunedin-based Scott Technology is the client for the carcasses and specialises in the design and manufacture of automated production and process machinery.
Scott Technology project manager Ryan Coatsworth said the company was installing four automated processing systems for Silver Fern Farms that would X-ray carcasses and calculate the weight of what each primal piece would be as if it had been cut.
That information would be given to farmers and they would use it for genetic breeding programmes to give them a higher payback in the future, he said."

An editorial from the Southland Times on our Department of Conservations latest poison drop :

"Swell. Blue cod around Ulva Island have tested positive for brodifacoum, the poison used in the recent blitzkreig  on rats. 

(and just a heads up, our esteemed local newspaper misspelt blitzkrieg, you cant correct simple mistakes AFTER you've printed tens of thousands of copies….and apparently they could be bothered correcting the mistake on their website either…….bye bye print media!)

Only two fish, so far, and the quantity in them is so small that someone would have to consume the livers of 360 blue cod for a measurable effect.
And yet the heart sinks. Further testing must now be carried out to clarify the measurable extent of the problem, what other species may also be affected, and whether there is any prospect of not only marine damage, but any potential public health risk.
DOC has, of course, recommended people avoid taking fish or shellfish within 100 metres of Ulva Island until all tests are clear.
None of which necessarily means that the drop was, itself, a bad idea after all – or even that there was any practical alternative to addressing the problem of a resurgent rat population, which DOC was adamant could not be trapped out of existence.
The department has a limited range of tools to deal with the continuing threat of rats on the island, a precious sanctuary of native birdlife that is also open to the public.
The poison drop was carried out after public consultation and with the general support of a public that was well aware of the need to protect the beloved birdlife of one of the south's most rightly celebrated islands.
There are times, though,when it seems as if every way we turn we wind up messing up the environment."

Of course, our Department of Conservation have made other mistakes, when they're not busy shooting to death "introduced species" like the Auckland Island Pigs to save them eating "native" plants on antarctic islands in the middle of blinking nowhere, we end up with a bunch of endangered snail popsicles:

The snail cause has long been sensationalized, "oh, those bloody greenies, they protest coal mining that would bring in billions upon billions of dollars to the New Zealand economy, to save a few bloody snails!"  Well, I for one am proud of my nations 70+ percent reliance on renewable energy, we generally don't have ANY coal burning power stations, I'd prefer we refused fossil fuels as much as possible.  If it has to be spun into "they wont let us mine because it would destroy the precious little snails", then so be it!  But how about not keeping living animals in tupperware lunchbox containers in a big refrigerator, instead letting them live naturally, yes?

Another story, "New Dairy Rules Criticized" 

"Environment Southland's draft regionwide dairy farming policy has been criticised by farmers concerned at what they say is a lack of consultation.
New rules are expected to come in before Christmas to protect the region's waterways.
A draft regionwide policy means new dairy farms, associated dairy grazing and their related activities will be deemed a discretionary activity and will have to comply with resource consent conditions.


Dairy NZ chief executive Dr Tim Mackle said the organisation was deeply disappointed the rules had been developed without any engagement with the dairy sector or wider farming community.
They would cause significant uncertainty to farmers and service industries which relied on their business across Southland, he said. "DairyNZ will be working with farmers to understand the implications of the proposed rules.
"We are concerned that Environment Southland are proposing to notify the rules with little or no understanding of the implications upon farming."
Dr Mackle believed if farmers were given the opportunity to work with the regional council then more sustainable social, economic, cultural and environmental outcomes would be achieved."

What the  Dairy NZ bossman really means was "hey, don't bite the hand that gives you money", thats how the saying goes, right?, "we run this crummy little region, we're big industry, WE make the rules around here! "

Yes yes yes, 89 percent* of Southland rivers are of quote "poor" water condition, but SURELY we cant be sure of where all this pollution is coming from, right?  I mean, it couldn't be all the cow crap, sorry, effluent, sorry, "farm runoff", sorry, have to sugar coat it further, "nutrients"… BUT EVEN IF IT IS….environmental protection agencies and the huge dairy industry should work TOGETHER….do a STUDY…you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours…."

You're listening to Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals, radio INV-SOC…. where we play ALLLLLLLLLL the hits, this ones going out to the farmers,  The Coasters, with…….Charlie Brown!

< cut intro off, play instrumental under radio dj intro     play why is everybody always picking on me charlie brown song>

Poor Farmers, only 99% of the country buys their product, albeit with a grumble every now and then about THEIR poor wallets being INHUMANELY EXPLOITED

Last Sunday, not one, but TWO television channels ran segments on "factory farming".  I'd like to cover the one, on the latest "welfare expose" of New Zealand egg farms…. I hate calling them that, as someone with Hen Friends….what a awful place, and to so casually say "oh, thats just an egg farm", it doesn't do the atrocities justice.  

The other video is about New Zealand Open Rescue, where the activists are featured, their day jobs, their goals for New Zealand Open Rescue to focus and end so called "factory farming".  I'll link to both videos in my shownotes.  

<1 stop right after she says CHOOKS….I hate that term, I really do, its an Australian slang word, it implies "dumb, dull, just a silly old chook", its sort of whimsical, its not a respectful, beautiful word….its a slur in my book, to my beautiful little Hen Friends>

<30 seconds "eggs bound for your table"  not mine!

2m 12 these birds taken to check their welfare>

I hope they weren't, I'd prefer knowing they were *rescued* for more than a checkup, to be dropped back off, but rather to finally respect their Steve Jobs given rights, to be respected as our fellow animals, as our friends, to live their lives away from the property paradigm!

<2 interrupt when Hans "well I wouldn't eat eggs that came from a cage like that", a really missed opportunity for speaking about Veganism, Hans is himself Vegan, surely he could say "no, I don't eat birds eggs" when directly asked such a question? > 

<1m 10s odd "flaps ITS wings">

Flaps HER wings, we know SHE is female as she's being kept alive to steal the product of her reproductive system, her unfertilized eggs.  I really think its important to point out that other animals are most certainly NOT "its", they are a "he" or "she", male or female.  When in doubt, I go with "they", "how are THEY doing", "oh, when was the last time you saw THEM" etc.

So, here comes the focus of this news segment, "oh no, the cages that we use to trap beautiful little Hens in have naughty doors, that are too small, we need to make THE CAGE DOORS larger, otherwise its inhumane!" 

You know, the cage doors, which are opened to put the young Hens inside, and then generally only opened to drag older Hens out for SLAUGHTER….to be killed for the crime of having a less frequent Female reproductive cycle, for being "too old", and hence a waste of grain and space.  Its a bloody disgrace.

I *dont* believe New Zealand Open Rescue or SAFE would have went to the media with a new campaign against "too small cage doors, which might hurt a Hens wings when she's dragged out by some guy on minimum wage, about to kill her for being "too old", like she's a character in Logans Run, with a glowing red crystal on her wing".

Presumably the media picked this angle, from the footage recorded, from the interviews given, they went with "the doors are too small, its a bloody outrage".  Like reporting on "Steve Jobs and his freaky Vegan diet, which he picks up for a week at a time, then drops, then becomes vehemently, radically, totally over the top, extremist, fundamentalist Vegan all over again", surely its a matter of *how* and *what* the media have decided is the big focus, the big scoop?

SAFE are asking for "not Battery Cages", more so than "bigger battery cage doors".

There is a troubling, wholly SAFE produced recent video on YouTube, in which Hans Kriek mentions "…if we want to farm them, we can do so much better" than "battery cages" or "colony cages", free range!

SAFE video Hans for "free range"

@ 2m 27s

"…in New Zealand we have a perfect country to actually farm these animals outdoors….and theres problems with that, but they can be overcome….but if we want to farm them, we can do so much better.""

I wish Vegan Hans Kriek had suggested why we WOULDN'T want to quote "farm" other animals, to treat them as lesser THINGS, as our property, instead of our much loved little Friends.

<4a stop at 15 seconds>

here the farmers are rattling off all the Animal Welfare certifications they have, as though we should simply accept "we have X certification, everything is great, buy our birds eggs at your nearest supermarket today!".

I'd prefer Animal RIGHTS groups didn't invent new "humane" or "welfare approved" labels to bestow on those who hurt and kill other animals

<4a continues>


Ha, so THIS farmer is selling out some other farmer nearby, that he apparently knows is up to some quote "bad shit", surely he should be reporting this "bad shit" to the wonderful government departments in charge of maintaining such high levels of "animal welfare", right?

<4 a and 4b edit together, remove "its eleven o'clock" disruption at end of 4a>

What a TERRIBLE position to fall back on, "hey hey hey, I might find the stuff I have to sign off on as the guy in charge to be terrible, but its my job, I cant change the law, I just do my job, turn a blind eye and say its a-ok!  you cant change the law!"  

Sounds rather "we were just following orders".

Here the segment ends with SAFE giving us suggestions how to help the millions of sweet little Hens suffering in New Zealand :


I'd kick it up a notch, as someone who looks after some nice Hens, please, lets talk about Veganism, how we can respect *everyone*, how we can stop harming and killing over 56 billion other animals each year.  "welfare standards" don't mean much, as we've just heard from the people in charge, and the same old welfare exposes run time and time again.  SAFE have been against "battery cages" in New Zealand for over twenty years now!  And when the media *do* decide to give any animal "rights", in this case strictly "animal welfare" stories a bit of attention, its about the woefully small cage doors, because we all know Hens deserve to be dragged feet first out of  nice LARGE doors, to get the lovely knife through their throats, or to have their necks snapped, or whatever other lovely method of being executed is on the menu today.

on Vegans who say "THEY" are not ready to hear the Vegan message, we have to take things glacially slow, asking for a five atoms more cage space before our mortal lives are over…I don't know about you, but on turning twenty four this year, I've started hearing footsteps behind my back…the grim spectre of death ever lurks near us all.

Some people like their laced Soy Moloko to slow down, "hey Jordan, THEY are not ready for Vegan activism, we gotta help animals suffering today, by spending our mortal lives asking for five atoms more cage space, to be put into place when you've had your 44th birthday!"

<"slow down, you're moving too fast, gotta make the moment last…feeling grooooovy….la la la la…feeling groovy"  >

Barkeep, I'll have my Soy Moloko with Drencrom, please

….ready for a bit of the old Vegan Activism, although as a non alcohol, non drug taking person, I'm sure we can do without such mind altering soy milks before promoting respect for others.

Lets trust in the message, that all animals are equal, and if we need anything to be "sharpened up", may it be the edges on our local Vegan Societies logo.  

Lets up the pace, promote Veganism as easy, as the least other animals deserve, lets go full speed ahead, asking for Veganism, respect for all, marching to the funky beat of the greatest disco song of all time!

The Vegan Force really DOES have a lotta power in it, trying to keep this analogy going, listen to what a few passionate family members can accomplish!

(repeat song don't blame it on the factory farming, sow stalls, cow cubicles, battery farms )

Blame it on a tradition of Non Veganism, of disrespect, of seeing ourselves as ABOVE other animals, that they are our things, our living STOCK, property.   Lets look at what *we* can be responsible for, what *we* can all do in our own lives. 

Its simple to make that change, its not difficult to be Vegan in 2011.  As a young man living in New Zealand, I can personally attest that its as easy for me to be Vegan as not.  Listening to the previous, World Vegan Day episode of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals, TWENTY SEVEN Vegans from around the world were featured:

Barbara, Adam, Roger, Carolyn, Ronnie, Debra, Michael, Raphael, Thomas, Diana, Ian, Emmy, Claire, Geoff, Tim, Michael, Annie, Asher, Denise, Neve, Te Koha, Yolanda, Dan, Katharine, Aleisha, Sophie, Corey Lee…..

Veganism is spreading, there are more Vegans every day, all around the world, we ARE ready to promote Veganism, the world is Vegan if we want it.

Its not difficult to speak with Non Vegans about Animal Rights, Veganism, its not like you'll zoom away from their interest, leaving them wondering what just happened.

Although, some people WANT to be sped away to the other side of the world, swept off their feet by a New Zealand maniac, specially after they've been traumatized by twenty odd years stuck in some country without the metric system, where a "world" series consists of one lousy country playing some internationally unknown sport!

We're trying to get away from a terrible system of exploitation - when your house is burning down, "slow down, you're moving too fast"…… don't muck around, you grab your iPhone, iPad, iPod, iMac….then if theres time, your significant other…..and get the frig outta there!

I decided to be Vegetarian in the last days of 2006, for New Years Eve 2007.  Lucky Seven, it seemed fitting for all the animals saved from sure death, albeit from NOT being born into slavery in the first place.

By 2009, I'd decided to be fully Vegan, I found the links between different harms, different deaths of other animals, Veganism avoids this exploitation as much as possible.

If you know someone interested in Vegan, who hasn't dabbled their toe in the water yet, give them a friendly shove, suggest they consider Veganism for their New Years Eve Resolution, suggest some simple meal plans to try at first, perhaps share your favourite Vegan podcast with them *COUGH COUGH COUGH*, talk to them in these two months before the end of the world, sorry, the end of the year. 

"err arrr ar, ask not what your new years resolution can do for yourself, but what it can do for others ….."

With an ethic of respect for all, Vegan education, and 1970's Michael Jackson tracks blaring from our boombox/iPhone, lets change the world.

Thank you for listening to Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals.

You can find the script for this episode, as well as downloads for every episode of Coexisting With Nonhuman Animals at coexisting with nonhuman animals . co .nz

If you want to contact me, I'd really love to hear from YOU, please send me an email to

I'm also on Facebook and Twitter, Jordan Wyatt, W Y A T T

Thank you for listening.


Dreamy Robot interview with Jordan Wyatt, "Vegetarianism of Steve Jobs" (I spoke about Veganism)

Farmers feeling blamed :
The Coasters "Charlie Brown"

Slaughterhouse dead body models made

dairy rules criticized!

* 89% of Southland rivers "poor" water quality

Poisoned Fish found after poison drop to kill rats, "don't kill and eat the fish!" warning

Endangered snails killed by accident in freezer

SAFE *produced* video about eggs, Hans literally states that any "problems" with outdoor farming of Hens to take their eggs could be FIXED!  NOT VEGAN!
@ 2m 27s

"…in New Zealand we have a perfect country to actually farm these animals outdoors….and theres problems with that, but they can be overcome….but if we want to farm them, we can do so much better."

Invercargill Mayor Tim Shadbolt video for INVSOC

Soy Moloko Plus :-)

A Clockwork Orange audiobook


A Clockwork Orange movie

eggs TVNZ

Open Rescue interview

Occupy Wallstreet police raids, weapons used

in contrast, my video of Occupy Invercargill 


Fast Car, by Tracey Chapman
Take Me Away by Winter Gordon
Don't Look Back by Tommie Sunshine & Disco Fries 
Promises, by Nero
With Thoughts, by Art vs Science


  1. 1. I am in love with the good mayor of Invercargill
    2. Thumbs up to MJ
    3. <3

  2. Mmmm... Steamed swede! There's nothing I love more than gobbling them up and washing them down with a frosty pint of Speights! Now that's a meal that will stick to your ribs!
    I would be honored to stay at your crib (or in your crypt). One day, my friend. One day.

  3. Lucas:

  4. So is that what staying at your place is like? : D


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